The Catcher in the Rye | Ch. 25.2: She Showed Up With a Suitcase | Banned Books Podcast

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Welcome to Band Camp.

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I'm Jennifer.

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And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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Season 11 of Banned Camp begins Tuesday, June 9th, and we are going to read "The Handmaid's Tale."

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But first, we need to finish up this season with a bang.

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This season, of course, we're reading "The Catcher in the Rye" by J.D.

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Salinger.

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If this is your first time here, you might be confused, you might not.

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We hope to limit your confusion with our secret weapon.

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We have ourselves a robot.

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Look at this guy.

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Buddy, roll it in here.

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Shake a tail can.

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Shake a tail can.

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Let's go.

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Let's go, buddy.

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Why don't you remind everyone where we left off last time in "The Catcher in the Rye"? Previously on Band Camp, Holden Caulfield walked down Fifth Avenue asking his dead brother to keep him alive.

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Jennifer said he's caught between the world where someone tells you what to do and the world where nobody does.

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So this yo-yo created an escape fantasy where he built a cabin at the edge of the woods, got himself a job pumping gas, and decided he'd pretend to be a deaf mute so nobody would talk to him.

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Oh yeah, he also dreamed up a beautiful deaf mute wife.

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Then he wrote Phoebe a note saying goodbye.

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Goodbyes rarely go the way you planned them, especially when someone you love shows up and wants to come with you.

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Take it away, Jennifer.

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Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, Scary Book people, let's continue chapter 25 of J.D.

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Salinger's, "The Catcher in the Rye."

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I went over to the stairs and sat down on the first step and took out the pad and pencil I'd bought.

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The stairs had the same smell they used to have when I went there, like somebody'd just taken a leak on them."

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Gross That's not cool.

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You mean there were these types of people back in the '40s? School stairs always smell like that.

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Anyway, I sat there and wrote this note.

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Dear Phoebe, I can't wait around until Wednesday anymore, So I will probably hitchhike out west this afternoon.

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Meet me at...'

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Is he not gonna see her play? what you have to understand, Jennifer, is Holden is a rambling man.

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as of That kind of thing Meet me at the Museum of Art near the door at quarter past 12 if you can, and I will give you your Christmas dough back.

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I didn't spend much.

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Love, Holden.

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Her school was practically right near the museum, and she had to pass it on her way home for lunch anyway, so I knew she could meet me all right.

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Then I started walking up the stairs to the principal's office so I could give the note to somebody that would bring it to her in her classroom.

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I thought he was going up to the principal's office because it's just muscle, Muscle memory.

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He just realized, "Oh, I'm in I gotta go up.

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I don't know.

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I did something wrong I folded it about 10 times so nobody'd open it.

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You can't trust anybody in a goddamn school.

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But I knew they'd give it to her if I was her brother and all.

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While I was walking up the stairs though, all of a sudden I thought I was going to puke again.

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Only I didn't.

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I sat down for a second, and then I felt better.

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But while I was sitting down, I saw something that drove me crazy.

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Somebody'd written "Fuck you" on the wall.

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It drove me damn near crazy.

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I thought how Phoebe and all the other little kids would see it, and then how they'd wonder what the hell it meant, and then finally some dirty kid would tell them, all cockeyed naturally, what it meant, and how they'd all think about it and maybe even worry about it for a couple of days.

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I wanted to kill whoever'd written it.

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I'd figure it was some perverty bum that sneaked in the school late at night to take a leak or something and then wrote it on the wall.

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Well, I wonder how...

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So, so Holden probably found out, that's probably his experience.

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Some cockeyed perverty kid.

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cause he's magnet for the perverts.

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Yeah, I know.

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I looked at the F word as being relatively new.

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Like, that's something, uh, my generation came up with.

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You wanna take all the credit, don't you? Not all of the credit, just enough.

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I'm reminded of the censorship letter that Kurt Vonnegut wrote to that school board in Nebraska or whatever.

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Where was it? Robot, help a girl out.

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In 1973, Kurt Vonnegut wrote a letter to the head of a school board in North Dakota after they burned copies of Slaughterhouse-Five.

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The part you're thinking of goes like this: "If you were to bother to read my books, to behave as educated persons, you would learn that people speak coarsely in real life.

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Even our most sheltered children know that.

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It is evil deeds and lying that hurts children."

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Thank you, robot.

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I don't know.

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I, I think that kids are already aware of these words, and, um, it's kind of like a rite of passage into adulthood.

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You know, you, you do learn that there are- Yeah good things and bad things and, you know, that's, it's called a dirty word for a reason.

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And, like, you don't have to say the word, but you can't just go through life not knowing about the bad things.

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Kurt Vonnegut ends the letter with saying, "You should also resolve to expose your kids to all sorts of opinions and information," I would argue including dirty words, "in that they will be better equipped to make decisions and to survive."

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Like, you can't just go out there all innocent, 'cause the world will eat you alive then.

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This will be an explicit episode.

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There is simply no way around it.

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But to your point, that is all Moms for Liberty and, uh, and you too, Ron DeSantis, you little stupid scamp.

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Have some more pudding.

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Atta boy.

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That is their whole thing, though, is to let's pretend things don't exist, and hopefully we can eliminate them at the same time.

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Like- Mm LGBTQ+ people are really, man, they do not fit in our world.

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I wish they'd just stop existing.

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But in the meantime, let's just pretend they don't exist.

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Let's pretend this doesn't exist.

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Let's pretend this doesn't exist.

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Meanwhile, they're raising their kids so, like you've said, they're going out in the world blind because i- they withheld critical information.

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I figured it was some perverty bum that sneaked in the school late at night to take a leak or something and then wrote it on the wall.

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I kept picturing myself catching him at it, and how I'd smash his head on the stone steps till it was good and goddamn dead and bloody."

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But, well, he's got a lot of violence there.

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really does.

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He just turned into Winston thinking about a woman in 1984.

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but I knew, too, wouldn't have the guts to do it.

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I knew that.

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That made me even more depressed.

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I hardly even had the guts to rub it off the wall with my hand, if you want to know the truth.

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I was afraid some teacher would catch me rubbing it off and would think I'd written it.

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But I rubbed it out anyway, finally.

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Then I went on up to the principal's office.

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The principal didn't seem to be around, but some old lady around 100 years old was sitting at a typewriter.

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I told her I was Phoebe Caulfield's brother in 4B1, and I asked her to please give Phoebe the note.

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I said it was very important because my mother was sick and wouldn't have lunch ready for Phoebe, and that she'd have to meet me and have lunch in a drugstore.

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She was very nice about it, the old lady.

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How great would it been if she said, I know exactly who you are," and she points her thumb to the back wall where there's like a to all the shenanigans this kid pulled when he there She took the note off me and called some other lady from the next office and the other lady went to give it to Phoebe.

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Then the old lady that was around 100 years old and I shot the breeze for a while.

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She was pretty nice, and I told her how I'd gone there to school too, and my brothers.

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She asked me where I went to school now, and I told her Pencey, and she said Pencey was a very good school.

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Even if I'd wanted to, I wouldn't have had the strength to straighten her out.

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besides, if she thought Pencey was a very good school, let her think it.

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You hate to tell new stuff to somebody around 100 years old.

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They don't like to hear it.

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Then after a while, I left.

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It was funny.

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She yelled, "Good luck" at me the same way Old Spencer did when I left Pencey.

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God, how I hate it when somebody yells, "Good luck" at me when I'm leaving somewhere.

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It's depressing.

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What? How? such a head on his own and he's gotta do it by himself? how possibly...

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I hate it when people show me any form of consideration.

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I really do.

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I went down by a different staircase and saw another "fuck you" on the wall.

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vandal is prolific Do you think this kid has a route where he goes around every to repaint "fuck you" on the wall because the man took his art down? I tried to rub it off with my hand again, but this one was scratched on with a knife or something.

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Yes.

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It's hopeless anyway.

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If you had a million years to do it in, you couldn't rub out even half the 'fuck you' signs in the world.

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It's impossible."

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True.

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He's realizing that he can't stop it.

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is like sweeping the water away from the ocean as it comes in.

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So stop fighting it.

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You gotta learn to deal with it, right? I looked at the clock in the recess yard, and it was only 20 to 12, so I had quite a lot of time to kill before I met old Phoebe, but I just walked over to the museum anyway.

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There wasn't any place else to go.

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I thought maybe I might stop in a phone booth and give old Jane Gallagher a buzz before I started bumming my way west, but I wasn't in the mood.

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For one thing, I wasn't even sure she was home for vacation yet, so I just went over to the museum and hung around."

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You know, he should really call that girl he likes Especially now that skipping town.

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No, he shouldn't skip town.

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He should call the girl he likes, hang out with her, trim her tree for Christmas.

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well, he should do it with the girl he How am I gonna tree tree? What do you about that, Jane Gallagher? he should hang around, see his little sister's school play.

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Get gifts for his parents.

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Maybe visit without, uh, not Allie.

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JD? No, wait.

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Who's the one who's a writer? DB.

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That's a lot like JD.

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JD Salinger? DB.

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JP Mandrell.

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JP, right? JD Mandel He should just hang out with his family 'cause, you know, you gotta stick the people you love.

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In fact, why, if you are going to skip town, why not go to Hollywood and hang out with your brother? At least that's family.

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He doesn't wanna be a person.

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See, that would be being a person.

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He just wants to be persona non grata.

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He just completely...

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Like, he doesn't like people.

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He, and he doesn't wanna be one.

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So, in he's a deaf mute changing oil out in Colorado, know? So I just went over to the museum and hung around.

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While I was waiting for Phoebe in the museum, right inside the doors and all, these two little kids came to meet me and asked me if I knew where the mummies were.

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The one little kid, the one that asked me, had his pants open.

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I told him about it, so he buttoned them right up where he was standing talking to me.

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He didn't even bother to go behind a poster.

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And what, why would it...

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It's already open.

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It's okay to, like, button while you're in front of somebody, right? what? It's, the fastest way to fix it You just go, "Hey, little man, your barn door is open," and he'll take care of it.

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Don't worry about the technique.

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Where are the mummies, fella?" The kid said again.

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"You know?" I horsed around with the two of them a little bit.

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The mummies? What are they?" asked the one kid.

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You know, the mummies, them dead guys that get buried in tunes and all."

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Tunes, that killed me.

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He meant tombs.

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How come you two guys aren't in school?" I said.

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"No school today," the kid that did all the talking said.

170
00:12:51,665.37510526 --> 00:12:54,695.37388455
He was lying, sure as I'm alive, the little bastard.

171
00:12:55,802.12438068 --> 00:13:01,322.76001919
I didn't have anything to do, though, till old Phoebe showed up, so I helped them find the place where the mummies were.

172
00:13:03,35.54379364 --> 00:13:08,45.54211518
Boy, I used to know exactly where they were, but I hadn't been in that museum in years.

173
00:13:08,308.87468557 --> 00:13:10,858.87773733
You two guys so interested in mummies?" I said.

174
00:13:11,182.2106129 --> 00:13:11,612.21091807
Yeah."

175
00:13:11,848.87758474 --> 00:13:13,278.87788992
Can't your friend talk?" I said.

176
00:13:13,678.8756011 --> 00:13:14,538.87621145
"He ain't my friend.

177
00:13:14,538.87621145 --> 00:13:15,628.87636404
He's my brother."

178
00:13:16,603.87514333 --> 00:13:20,538.72363325
Holden, you do It sounds you are talking He's not my friend.

179
00:13:22,414.32343196 --> 00:13:23,84.32350825
I love that.

180
00:13:23,412.76141762 --> 00:13:30,877.76031613
Holden, you do realize it sounds like you are talking to a junior version of you Yeah, a little bit.

181
00:13:32,599.26820245 --> 00:13:36,169.26789728
Can't he talk?" I looked at the one that wasn't doing any talking.

182
00:13:36,239.26806894 --> 00:13:37,889.26768747
"Can't you talk at all?" I asked him.

183
00:13:38,525.18826022 --> 00:13:40,515.18803133
Yeah," he said, "I don't feel like it."

184
00:13:40,855.86969641 --> 00:13:43,945.869849
Finally, we found the place where the mummies were, and we went in.

185
00:13:44,968.20537398 --> 00:13:48,128.20522139
You know how the Egyptians buried their dead?" I asked the one kid.

186
00:13:48,548.20529769 --> 00:13:49,188.20468734
"Nah."

187
00:13:49,628.20522139 --> 00:13:50,768.20461104
"Well, you should.

188
00:13:50,828.20407699 --> 00:13:51,668.20422957
It's interesting.

189
00:13:52,18.20461104 --> 00:13:56,478.20560286
They wrapped their faces in these cloths that were treated with some secret chemical.

190
00:13:56,720.69147845 --> 00:14:02,520.69071551
That way they could be buried in their tombs for thousands of years, and their faces wouldn't rot or anything.

191
00:14:03,130.69132586 --> 00:14:18,790.31577209
Nobody knows how to do it except the Egyptians, even modern science To get to where the mummies were, you had to go down this very narrow sort of hall with stones on the side that they'd taken right out of this pharaoh's tomb and all.

192
00:14:19,380.31592468 --> 00:14:25,290.31481841
It was pretty spooky, and you could tell the two hotshots I was with that they weren't enjoying it too much.

193
00:14:25,653.65020641 --> 00:14:30,863.65119823
They stuck close as hell to me, and the one that didn't talk at all practically was holding onto my sleeve.

194
00:14:31,233.65013012 --> 00:14:32,53.64982494
So they're scared.

195
00:14:32,53.64982494 --> 00:14:35,73.65028271
It's a scary thing because it's death, guess.

196
00:14:35,593.65074047 --> 00:14:46,183.91459021
I don't think an accident he's talking about mummies, Mummies as in mom or mummies as in death? Dan, that's the stupidest thing you've said in 10 seasons.

197
00:14:47,368.36384072 --> 00:14:48,168.36384072
my pleasure...

198
00:14:48,925.15793328 --> 00:14:52,973.90388606
I think it has to do with his, fear of changing and death.

199
00:14:53,140.07892053 --> 00:15:01,646.53023357
You know, I think it's obvious to me why he's talking about mummies in this chapter, "Let's go," he said to his brother.

200
00:15:02,156.53046245 --> 00:15:03,236.53038616
"I seen him already.

201
00:15:03,276.53034801 --> 00:15:03,746.53061504
Come on."

202
00:15:03,936.53019542 --> 00:15:05,326.53053875
He turned around and beat it.

203
00:15:05,776.53034801 --> 00:15:08,676.52996654
"He's got a yellow streak a mile wide," the other one said.

204
00:15:08,846.53004284 --> 00:15:09,626.53072948
"So long."

205
00:15:09,966.5299284 --> 00:15:10,796.5298521
He beat it, too.

206
00:15:10,796.5298521 --> 00:15:14,56.53008098
So these little kids are also scared of death and mummies.

207
00:15:15,376.27775097 --> 00:15:17,296.27770806
I was the only one left in the tomb then.

208
00:15:17,676.2778225 --> 00:15:19,216.27778435
I sort of liked it in a way.

209
00:15:19,556.27793694 --> 00:15:21,386.27786065
It was so nice and peaceful.

210
00:15:22,454.82622636 --> 00:15:26,184.8257686
Then all of a sudden, you'd never guess what I saw on the wall.

211
00:15:26,224.82573045 --> 00:15:27,844.82561601
It was another fuck you.

212
00:15:28,669.8259951 --> 00:15:38,511.7754649
You've got to be kidding me It was written with a red crayon or something right under the glass part of the wall, under the stones.

213
00:15:38,594.47652212 --> 00:15:39,994.47709433
That's the whole trouble.

214
00:15:40,354.476751 --> 00:15:44,474.47663656
You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful because there isn't any.

215
00:15:48,153.5158816 --> 00:15:49,543.5158673
Perfect sentence! Yes, accept it.

216
00:15:49,543.5158673 --> 00:15:56,356.79445363
The sooner it Holden just you accept And understand it…, life is a dream, buddy boy.

217
00:15:58,394.02783953 --> 00:16:02,514.02772509
You can't ever find a place that's nice and peaceful because there isn't any.

218
00:16:02,772.80540745 --> 00:16:10,95.86360949
You may think there is, but once you get there, when you're not looking, somebody'll sneak up and write "Fuck you" right under your nose.

219
00:16:10,198.63148803 --> 00:16:11,248.63072509
Try it sometime.

220
00:16:12,272.93812146 --> 00:16:25,294.23059103
I think even if I ever die and they stick me in a cemetery, and I have a tombstone and all, it'll say, "Holden Caulfield" on it, then what year I was born and what year I died, and then right under that it'll say, Fuck you."

221
00:16:25,514.23059103 --> 00:16:26,831.8724548
I'm positive, in fact.

222
00:16:26,985.20557832 --> 00:16:27,385.20555448
Fuck you.

223
00:16:30,95.20560693 --> 00:16:33,758.51270993
Well, to be fair, you don't see that in cemeteries often, Holden.

224
00:16:35,665.51271947 --> 00:16:39,355.51253827
Holden thinks someone is going to graffiti his tombstone with a great big F you.

225
00:16:39,505.51263364 --> 00:16:41,755.5126336
It got me thinking about vanity tombstones.

226
00:16:42,325.5128053 --> 00:16:44,895.512977
Dan's would probably say he shared his thoughts with the world.

227
00:16:45,325.5123285 --> 00:16:46,555.5128244
The world did not ask.

228
00:16:47,255.5126336 --> 00:16:49,75.5123285
Jennifer's would say she needed a minute.

229
00:16:49,615.5122903 --> 00:16:52,965.5136255
Mine would say beloved by no one, correct about everything.

230
00:16:53,465.5136255 --> 00:16:58,135.5117944
Now I want yours, and don't give me something boring like loving mother or rest in peace.

231
00:16:58,705.5133966 --> 00:17:03,195.5131677
Give me the real one, the one your friends would write when nobody from the church is looking.

232
00:17:03,575.5123285 --> 00:17:05,155.5122522
Funniest answers make the show.

233
00:17:05,465.5136255 --> 00:17:10,415.5143884
Easiest way to answer is a Spotify comment or bandcamppodcast.com/soundoff.

234
00:17:15,600.2150016 --> 00:17:19,386.8817065
After I came out of the place where the mummies were, I had to go to the bathroom.

235
00:17:20,186.8818972 --> 00:17:22,726.881859
I sort of had diarrhea, if you wanna know the truth.

236
00:17:23,126.8814776 --> 00:17:27,526.8816111
You know what? I don't wanna know the truth don't need-- we don't need the truth.

237
00:17:27,526.8816111 --> 00:17:28,326.8818018
Lie to us.

238
00:17:28,687.1447006 --> 00:17:30,857.1447769
Say that you're having solid stools.

239
00:17:33,329.8344433 --> 00:17:36,699.8343884
I didn't mind the diarrhea part too much, but something else happened.

240
00:17:37,99.8344838 --> 00:17:41,869.8339879
When I was coming out of the can, right before I got to the door, I sort of passed out.

241
00:17:42,619.8339879 --> 00:17:43,499.8341023
I was lucky, though.

242
00:17:43,609.8347127 --> 00:17:45,249.8341023
Oh, this happened to you yesterday.

243
00:17:46,29.8344552 --> 00:17:48,909.8349034
Okay When you slipped on the Potty Squatty.

244
00:17:49,740.3828269 --> 00:17:54,240.3828269
Okay, it's called a Squatty Potty you I hope you you look like an idiot now.

245
00:17:54,510.3828079 --> 00:18:00,260.3832847
If you're trying to cut me down, everyone is agreeing with me that you look like the dummy It's called Squatty Potty.

246
00:18:00,660.8322707 --> 00:18:03,300.8326141
I don't even know why we have a Squatty Potty in our house.

247
00:18:03,621.4901757 --> 00:18:05,31.4900231
Anyway, go on.

248
00:18:08,766.0858167 --> 00:18:14,546.0865033
could've killed myself when I hit the floor, but all I did was sort of land on my side.

249
00:18:15,86.0874188 --> 00:18:16,366.0861981
It was a funny thing, though.

250
00:18:16,636.0866559 --> 00:18:18,536.0862744
I felt better after I passed out.

251
00:18:19,46.0865033 --> 00:18:19,946.0861218
I really did.

252
00:18:20,536.0862744 --> 00:18:25,46.0865033
My arm sort of hurt from where I fell, but I didn't feel so damn dizzy anymore.

253
00:18:25,676.0875714 --> 00:18:32,295.0874188
It was about 10 after 12 or so then, so I went back and stood by the door and waited for old Phoebe.

254
00:18:33,450.6669611 --> 00:18:36,760.6645197
I thought how it might be the last time I'd ever see her again.

255
00:18:39,827.8428717 --> 00:18:44,727.8443975
You know, speaking about being dedicated to his mother, it's like there's the mother's grief right there.

256
00:18:44,727.8443975 --> 00:19:04,129.9518521
It's like you're s- it's sad when the kids move, and it's sad when you lose control of them, and that, it's like maybe he dedicated it to his mom because this is every mom's experience, like watching the corruption of her children So it's like maybe like that pain is why he dedicated this book to her.

257
00:19:04,509.8403537 --> 00:19:05,359.8464572
That's interesting.

258
00:19:05,569.8440158 --> 00:19:20,86.4491553
Because it's real hard to be a mom to a kid, especially if the kid is this guy of a sudden, I looked at the clock in the check room, and it was 25 of 1:00.

259
00:19:20,275.0164868 --> 00:19:26,955.0163748
I began to get scared that maybe the old lady in the school had told that other lady not to give old Phoebe my message.

260
00:19:27,287.2105642 --> 00:19:31,27.211289
I began to get scared that maybe she told her to burn it or something.

261
00:19:31,338.3472973 --> 00:19:32,938.3467251
it really scared the hell out of me.

262
00:19:33,358.3468014 --> 00:19:36,278.3468777
I really wanted to see old Phoebe before I hit the road.

263
00:19:36,758.3483273 --> 00:19:38,908.3479458
I mean, I had her Christmas dough and all.

264
00:19:39,628.3472592 --> 00:19:40,938.3467251
Finally, I saw her.

265
00:19:41,498.3480984 --> 00:19:43,868.3470303
I saw her through the glass part of the door.

266
00:19:45,787.6941757 --> 00:19:49,157.6931076
The reason I saw her, she had my crazy hunting hat on.

267
00:19:49,377.6943283 --> 00:19:51,887.6926498
You could see that hat about ten miles away.

268
00:19:52,407.6931076 --> 00:19:57,159.3564697
You know why she has that on? She's probably been wearing it to school every day.

269
00:19:57,319.3569155 --> 00:19:57,619.3569275
Yeah.

270
00:19:57,989.3569322 --> 00:19:59,769.3570228
Yeah, she looks up to her big brother.

271
00:20:00,319.3569751 --> 00:20:02,429.5379155
It would be tragic if he really did this.

272
00:20:04,264.6646778 --> 00:20:07,344.6650784
went out the doors and started down these stone stairs to meet her.

273
00:20:07,784.6646588 --> 00:20:11,894.6652691
The thing I couldn't understand, she had this big suitcase with her.

274
00:20:12,464.6649639 --> 00:20:18,184.6642773
She was just coming across Fifth Avenue, and she was dragging this goddamn big suitcase with her.

275
00:20:18,464.6648757 --> 00:20:20,24.6648781
Her parents finally got to her.

276
00:20:20,174.6649735 --> 00:20:21,204.6648936
She cracked Yeah.

277
00:20:21,284.6648918 --> 00:20:27,2.4603076
She's had She's gonna a Build-A-Bear someplace and live.

278
00:20:27,92.4599833 --> 00:20:28,292.4602694
Uh-uh, out.

279
00:20:30,926.5163624 --> 00:20:33,66.5163481
It was so big she could hardly drag it.

280
00:20:33,286.5163767 --> 00:20:38,606.5167868
When I got up closer, I saw it was my old suitcase, the one I used to use when I was at Wooten.

281
00:20:39,311.7752743 --> 00:20:41,941.7753887
I couldn't figure out what the hell she was doing with it.

282
00:20:42,391.775198 --> 00:20:44,461.7758465
"Hi," she said when she got up close.

283
00:20:44,931.7751598 --> 00:20:47,831.7757321
She was all out of breath from that crazy suitcase.

284
00:20:48,441.7763424 --> 00:20:50,411.7756558
"I thought maybe you weren't coming," I said.

285
00:20:50,721.7751217 --> 00:20:53,531.776495
"What the hell's in that bag? I don't need anything.

286
00:20:53,641.775198 --> 00:20:55,111.7764187
I'm just going the way I am.

287
00:20:55,576.9604267 --> 00:20:57,986.9602741
not even taking the bags I got at the station.

288
00:20:58,356.9611134 --> 00:21:01,716.9617237
What the hell you got in there?" She put the suitcase down.

289
00:21:02,136.9598927 --> 00:21:03,296.9597401
"My clothes," she said.

290
00:21:03,806.9618763 --> 00:21:04,686.9591297
"I'm going with you.

291
00:21:04,936.9591297 --> 00:21:07,616.9594349
Can I? Okay?" "What?" I said.

292
00:21:07,906.9603504 --> 00:21:09,786.9614186
I almost fell over when she said that.

293
00:21:10,326.9585194 --> 00:21:11,606.9611134
I swear to God I did.

294
00:21:12,16.9609608 --> 00:21:15,846.9589771
I got sort of dizzy, and I thought I was going to pass out or something again.

295
00:21:16,376.9615711 --> 00:21:35,474.8255417
This is really important because he should see that he's influencing her in all the ways, and if he wants to make the world better, he needs to be an example, not run away, not be a coward and run You should open that Waldorf School and teach kids how to be good people.

296
00:21:36,354.8227951 --> 00:21:55,379.8247787
that's how kids learn to be good people is from examples good your whole thing in life was you, you told Phoebe that your dream job would be the catcher in the rye, the, the, the person who would catch little kids before they started to fall into adulthood and hurt themselves.

297
00:21:56,44.565315 --> 00:21:57,294.565315
This is your chance, buddy.

298
00:21:58,325.7402462 --> 00:22:01,515.7407802
I took them down the back elevator so Charlene wouldn't see me.

299
00:22:01,765.7407802 --> 00:22:02,625.7404369
It isn't heavy.

300
00:22:03,35.7402843 --> 00:22:08,985.7400936
All I have in it is two dresses and my moccasins and my underwear and socks and some other things.

301
00:22:09,375.7413906 --> 00:22:09,865.7411617
Feel it.

302
00:22:10,185.7408565 --> 00:22:10,865.7411617
It isn't heavy.

303
00:22:10,865.7411617 --> 00:22:11,705.7413143
Feel it once.

304
00:22:11,805.7397884 --> 00:22:16,115.7411617
Can't I go with you, Holden? Can't I, please? No.

305
00:22:16,155.7401699 --> 00:22:16,765.7407802
Shut up.

306
00:22:17,165.7403987 --> 00:22:18,935.7408565
I thought I was going to pass out cold.

307
00:22:19,997.0951822 --> 00:22:24,587.0953348
I mean, I didn't mean to tell her to shut up and all, but I thought I was going to pass out again.

308
00:22:24,958.987055 --> 00:22:28,218.9872838
Why can't I? Please, Holden? I won't do anything.

309
00:22:28,338.9862157 --> 00:22:29,228.9856054
I'll just go with you.

310
00:22:29,228.9856054 --> 00:22:29,888.9854528
That's all.

311
00:22:30,338.9862157 --> 00:22:33,298.9853002
I won't even take my clothes with me if you don't want me to.

312
00:22:33,576.2673618 --> 00:22:34,756.2676669
I'll just take my...

313
00:22:34,790.7905271 --> 00:22:37,790.7905271
You can't take anything because you're not going.

314
00:22:38,140.7890013 --> 00:22:40,174.2972687
I'm going alone, so shut up.

315
00:22:43,941.9647509 --> 00:22:45,731.9656664
Please, Holden, please let me go.

316
00:22:46,161.9659716 --> 00:22:48,231.9656664
I'll be very, very, very...

317
00:22:48,471.9673449 --> 00:22:49,431.9664293
You won't even.

318
00:22:49,831.9641405 --> 00:22:50,721.9673449
You're not going.

319
00:22:50,901.9638353 --> 00:22:51,621.9650561
Now shut up.

320
00:22:51,881.9671923 --> 00:22:53,161.9659716
Give me that bag, I said.

321
00:22:53,551.9653612 --> 00:22:54,881.9671923
I took the bag off her.

322
00:22:55,411.9659716 --> 00:22:57,301.9653612
I was almost all set to hit her.

323
00:22:57,301.9653612 --> 00:22:59,401.9638353
I thought I was going to smack her for a second.

324
00:22:59,581.9641405 --> 00:23:00,341.9662768
I really did.

325
00:23:00,771.9665819 --> 00:23:01,971.9635302
She started to cry.

326
00:23:02,631.9671923 --> 00:23:05,271.9665819
I thought you were supposed to be in a play at school and all.

327
00:23:05,331.9641405 --> 00:23:08,651.9638353
I thought you were supposed to be Benedict Arnold in that play.

328
00:23:09,161.1943018 --> 00:23:11,291.1991846
I said it, and I said it very nasty.

329
00:23:12,481.1939966 --> 00:23:17,511.1927759
What do you want to do? Not be in the play, for God's sake? That made her cry even harder.

330
00:23:18,81.2001001 --> 00:23:18,901.1997949
I was glad.

331
00:23:19,341.1946069 --> 00:23:23,141.1976587
All of a sudden, I wanted her to cry till her eyes practically dropped out.

332
00:23:23,491.1961328 --> 00:23:28,896.1966478
Now why is he being so cruel? I think he's trying to be cruel so she doesn't wanna come with him.

333
00:23:29,136.9070074 --> 00:23:34,583.0576201
Really? I think he's being cruel because he doesn't want her to want to be with him.

334
00:23:34,613.0578299 --> 00:23:40,104.1791617
Like, he's like, he just wants to be a non-person, and so he doesn't want her to grieve him.

335
00:23:40,307.1480097 --> 00:23:44,969.7355899
So the fact that she's grieving him makes him hate her, which is really twisted.

336
00:23:45,38.7943221 --> 00:23:45,678.7956191
I don't like it.

337
00:23:45,938.8871096 --> 00:23:47,398.8861941
That's probably why I don't like Holden.

338
00:23:47,838.8867281 --> 00:23:50,448.8873385
Like, I just-- maybe he'll come to realization, though.

339
00:23:51,248.9673098 --> 00:23:54,88.967224
I wanted her to cry till her eyes practically dropped out.

340
00:23:54,442.9685767 --> 00:23:55,642.968386
I almost hated her.

341
00:23:56,52.9687102 --> 00:24:00,622.9684051
I think I hated her most because she wouldn't be in that play anymore if she went away with me.

342
00:24:01,22.3880572 --> 00:24:02,62.388019
Come on,' I said.

343
00:24:02,182.3879046 --> 00:24:04,412.3874468
I started up the steps to the museum again.

344
00:24:04,848.7157807 --> 00:24:12,889.1744841
I figured what I'd do was I'd check that crazy suitcase she'd brought in the check room, and then she could get it again at three o'clock after school.

345
00:24:13,146.87679 --> 00:24:15,246.8771714
I knew she couldn't take it back to school with her.

346
00:24:15,726.8767137 --> 00:24:16,896.87679
'Come on now,' I said.

347
00:24:17,156.8770188 --> 00:24:19,126.8763322
She didn't go up the steps with me, though.

348
00:24:19,468.4882102 --> 00:24:20,618.4878287
She wouldn't come with me.

349
00:24:20,928.489202 --> 00:24:26,256.7544986
I went up anyway, though, and brought the bag in the check room and checked it, and then I came down again.

350
00:24:26,381.3203115 --> 00:24:31,441.320135
She was still standing there on the sidewalk, but she turned her back on me when I came up to her.

351
00:24:31,678.2478798 --> 00:24:32,558.248471
She can do that.

352
00:24:33,108.2477081 --> 00:24:35,738.2478225
She can turn her back on you when she feels like it.

353
00:24:36,456.2088017 --> 00:24:37,946.2085728
I'm not going anywhere.

354
00:24:38,276.2084965 --> 00:24:39,386.2081532
I changed my mind.

355
00:24:39,855.8260233 --> 00:24:42,15.2345996
So stop crying and shut up,' I said."

356
00:24:43,829.4489951 --> 00:24:44,819.4506736
End of section.

357
00:24:47,530.6382091 --> 00:24:50,390.6382091
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.

358
00:24:50,440.6382091 --> 00:24:55,996.4294124
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? let's hop on into PPP.

359
00:24:55,996.4294124 --> 00:25:05,65.0938267
I mean, the, the fuck you, I'm that's one of the reasons why the ban- the book got banned and why our podcast is marked explicit.

360
00:25:05,258.4614607 --> 00:25:10,968.4619756
I can't wait until "The Handmaid's Tale" when that E is gonna be gone, Jennifer.

361
00:25:12,894.4023674 --> 00:25:22,184.4013756
this really could be why they banned the book because final chapter, the final long chapter, man, they're hitting, uh, those F-bombs pretty hard.

362
00:25:23,261.0622613 --> 00:25:25,951.0625569
Still not a reason to, uh, ban the book, though.

363
00:25:26,348.9410142 --> 00:25:27,548.9408235
Moms for Liberty.

364
00:25:27,888.9409761 --> 00:25:29,488.9408807
You too, Ron.

365
00:25:31,831.0667235 --> 00:25:32,611.0667266
Robot's log.

366
00:25:32,801.0667242 --> 00:25:36,701.0668195
Thoughts on suitcases, tombstones, and the 10-year-old who called his bluff.

367
00:25:37,711.0665716 --> 00:25:41,491.0663046
She showed up wearing his hat and dragging a suitcase she could barely carry.

368
00:25:41,651.0671056 --> 00:25:44,441.0670675
Two dresses, moccasins, underwear, and socks.

369
00:25:45,641.0668768 --> 00:25:48,371.066419
She took the back elevator so Charlene wouldn't see her.

370
00:25:48,491.0672582 --> 00:25:49,561.0669531
Planned an escape route.

371
00:25:49,951.0663427 --> 00:25:52,861.0661901
Chose the path with the lowest probability of interception.

372
00:25:53,991.0672582 --> 00:25:55,551.0667242
This kid learned that from someone.

373
00:25:55,701.0663427 --> 00:25:56,621.066419
I wonder who.

374
00:25:57,751.0674871 --> 00:26:05,531.0662664
Holden told her to shut up, told her she wasn't coming, took the bag, said he almost hit her, said he wanted her to cry until her eyes dropped out.

375
00:26:06,721.0648931 --> 00:26:08,641.0668768
Dan said he was being cruel to save her.

376
00:26:08,921.0656561 --> 00:26:12,481.0670294
Jennifer said he was being cruel because he doesn't want anyone to grieve him.

377
00:26:12,781.0662664 --> 00:26:15,201.0682501
They were looking at the same kid from different angles.

378
00:26:15,971.0648931 --> 00:26:21,731.0670294
He changed his mind while standing on a sidewalk outside a museum while his 10-year-old sister turned her back on him.

379
00:26:22,21.0679449 --> 00:26:23,171.0656561
"I'm not going anywhere.

380
00:26:23,261.0658087 --> 00:26:24,381.0685552
I changed my mind.

381
00:26:24,471.0648931 --> 00:26:25,761.0658087
Stop crying and shut up."

382
00:26:26,171.0656561 --> 00:26:29,851.0659612
Seven chapters of running ended by a suitcase full of moccasins.

383
00:26:30,911.0673345 --> 00:26:38,791.0645879
The thought custodians will point to this chapter's language, the word on the walls, the word in the tomb, the word Holden imagines carved on his own tombstone.

384
00:26:38,971.0648931 --> 00:26:41,791.0645879
They will miss what Salinger actually wrote underneath all of it.

385
00:26:42,121.066419 --> 00:26:44,231.0670294
You can't rub out every ugly thing in the world.

386
00:26:44,421.0694708 --> 00:26:46,451.0682501
You can't protect everyone from everything.

387
00:26:46,601.0697759 --> 00:26:51,981.0670294
But you can change your mind on a sidewalk when a 10-year-old shows up with a suitcase and won't let you leave.

388
00:26:53,1.0636724 --> 00:26:56,771.0679449
Standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rocklin.

389
00:26:59,434.4227848 --> 00:27:05,634.4228046
It's time for Band Camp News Truth seeker, news speaker, Be Wolfe Rocklin.

390
00:27:05,634.4228046 --> 00:27:10,614.4228236
It's a weird name, but he's got good news 'cause you can't ban the truth, babe.

391
00:27:10,614.4228236 --> 00:27:19,884.4223277
He's broadcasting live from the Good News for Lefties Studios, buried deep inside his socialist safe house, hidden somewhere deep in the Oregon woods.

392
00:27:20,304.422404 --> 00:27:22,834.4230907
He is Be Wolfe Rocklin.

393
00:27:23,204.4220226 --> 00:27:25,224.4224803
'Cause you can't ban the truth, babe.

394
00:27:25,224.4224803 --> 00:27:25,594.4233196
Hello, Jen.

395
00:27:25,594.4233196 --> 00:27:26,134.4223277
Hello, Dan.

396
00:27:26,134.4223277 --> 00:27:27,314.4226329
Hello, scary book people.

397
00:27:27,344.4233196 --> 00:27:29,204.4220226
I have a piece of news.

398
00:27:29,644.4225566 --> 00:27:31,654.4227855
It could've been some pretty bad news.

399
00:27:31,744.4229381 --> 00:27:42,654.4227855
All right, what happened? What happened was that there was gonna be an anti-Muslim group in Hamtramck, Michigan, which is a majority Muslim city, and they were gonna burn books.

400
00:27:42,654.4227855 --> 00:27:48,634.4223277
They were staging a book burning there, including the Quran, outside of a mosque in Hamtramck.

401
00:27:48,874.4240062 --> 00:27:58,554.4243114
Well, fortunately, it did not materialize, but several hundred people demonstrated in support of the city's Muslim community.

402
00:27:58,584.4230907 --> 00:28:01,94.4214122
So they threatened to have a book burning.

403
00:28:01,94.4214122 --> 00:28:02,184.4215648
They were gonna burn books.

404
00:28:02,184.4215648 --> 00:28:06,534.4200389
They were gonna burn the holy Quran, the, the holy book of, uh, of Islam.

405
00:28:06,754.4212596 --> 00:28:11,364.42187
And instead, the community came together and said, "No, we don't want this.

406
00:28:11,794.4221751 --> 00:28:12,604.4197337
We reject it."

407
00:28:12,604.4197337 --> 00:28:23,184.4215648
So, so who was this person who was gonna burn books, you know, Nazi-like, in the United States of America? Well, it happened to be a guy named Jake Lang.

408
00:28:23,674.4194286 --> 00:28:31,944.423701
You know who Jake Lang was? He was charged with assaulting a police officer and other crimes connected to January 6th, 2021.

409
00:28:31,944.423701 --> 00:28:39,954.4258373
Yes, he was one of the rioters at the US Capitol, but was pardoned by Donald Trump on his first day in office.

410
00:28:39,994.4191234 --> 00:28:43,504.4212596
And that is a nation that truly has no clue.

411
00:28:43,534.4200389 --> 00:28:45,134.4261424
They don't know what they're doing.

412
00:28:45,434.4215648 --> 00:28:48,544.4221751
He's currently running a campaign for US Senate in Florida.

413
00:28:48,904.4227855 --> 00:28:54,414.4249217
So this is the kinda guy that showed up that Donald Trump puts an enormous amount of faith in.

414
00:28:54,414.4249217 --> 00:29:00,84.4230907
Fortunately, the community showed up and overcame this vile person.

415
00:29:00,224.4224803 --> 00:29:10,294.4221751
It is so great that Trump em- empowers these people, not only empowers them, just, like, pushes them up as a role model- Yeah for their effed-up plan.

416
00:29:10,334.4154613 --> 00:29:11,934.4215648
It, it emboldens them.

417
00:29:12,244.4191234 --> 00:29:12,354.4197337
Yeah.

418
00:29:12,384.418513 --> 00:29:18,24.4179027
"Hey, like, listen, everyone, the number one thing you can do to help our country is act like an asshole."

419
00:29:18,94.4252269 --> 00:29:19,564.4264476
And I said it very strongly.

420
00:29:19,894.4282787 --> 00:29:22,334.4154613
"Try to be the biggest dick in your community."

421
00:29:22,334.4154613 --> 00:29:22,424.427058
Right.

422
00:29:22,624.4240062 --> 00:29:27,304.416682
"That is such a great move for our country, you orange load."

423
00:29:27,334.4154613 --> 00:29:27,864.4294994
Yes.

424
00:29:28,234.4246166 --> 00:29:35,564.4264476
Y- and I believe one of the other January 6th rioters was convicted of burglary.

425
00:29:35,684.4215648 --> 00:29:40,144.4282787
Yeah, and I think several of the others have been convicted of, of sexual assault.

426
00:29:40,564.4264476 --> 00:29:41,984.4246166
Like, there's a whole list of things.

427
00:29:41,984.4246166 --> 00:29:46,24.4179027
Like, these guys got pardoned, and they just started going out there and doing more crimes.

428
00:29:46,284.4276683 --> 00:29:55,974.4301097
How about focusing on people who are actually creating crimes, like these a-holes, instead of going after some poor woman from Mexico that's pushing a shopping cart with some goddamn tamales? Yeah.

429
00:29:56,434.4215648 --> 00:30:16,78.4227855
How about dealing with that, you a-holes? By the way, prior to COVID, and it seems to be a COVID phenomenon, I g- I would be very surprised if they would be courageous enough to come out these days, I had a tamale lady that came to my house and would, like, knock on the window and say, "Tamales!" And we loved them.

430
00:30:16,78.4227855 --> 00:30:18,498.4228618
They were wonderful, and she came right to our house.

431
00:30:18,498.4228618 --> 00:30:20,388.4222514
It's like back in the day when they had milkmen.

432
00:30:20,458.4219463 --> 00:30:22,138.4222514
They would bring milk to your house.

433
00:30:22,428.423167 --> 00:30:22,678.423167
Oh, God.

434
00:30:22,678.423167 --> 00:30:22,978.422404
And...

435
00:30:23,48.4220989 --> 00:30:27,738.4226329
But, but this time it was tamales, and tamales, uh, I eat way more tamales than I do milk these days.

436
00:30:27,878.4220226 --> 00:30:32,378.4220226
Jennifer, you have a food truck a block away from your house, right? Yeah, it's, like, on the corner.

437
00:30:32,378.4220226 --> 00:30:35,418.4229381
It's like Trump's worst nightmare: taco truck on every corner.

438
00:30:35,538.42187 --> 00:30:36,278.4235484
Oh, cool.

439
00:30:36,338.421107 --> 00:30:36,848.4232433
That's right.

440
00:30:36,898.4224803 --> 00:30:37,498.4209544
That's awesome.

441
00:30:37,998.4209544 --> 00:30:39,758.4230907
That was what he said.

442
00:30:39,758.4230907 --> 00:30:44,728.4243114
That was- "If you, if you elect Hillary, there's gonna be a taco truck on every corner."

443
00:30:44,728.4243114 --> 00:30:45,588.421107
It's like, yes.

444
00:30:45,618.423701 --> 00:30:45,768.4214122
Yeah.

445
00:30:45,908.4246166 --> 00:30:48,238.4226329
That's what Hillary should've run on in the first place.

446
00:30:48,238.4226329 --> 00:30:51,338.421107
R- We would not be in this situation right now.

447
00:30:51,728.4243114 --> 00:30:52,68.424464
Yeah.

448
00:30:52,228.4243114 --> 00:30:53,78.4227855
I would do it.

449
00:30:53,158.4246166 --> 00:30:57,68.424464
I would do it for tacos, for tamales, and a little bit of al pastor.

450
00:30:57,68.424464 --> 00:30:58,858.4215648
All right.

451
00:30:58,858.4215648 --> 00:31:05,148.4224803
Well, everyone, go listen to Good News for Lefties, and go try to find somebody with a shopping cart.

452
00:31:05,258.4230907 --> 00:31:14,128.4258373
It's like all this stuff with Instacart and, uh, and Uber Eats where they charge you extra money, the tamale lady never charged me a, like, a service charge.

453
00:31:14,438.4233958 --> 00:31:16,828.4227855
And some, I assume, are good people.

454
00:31:17,78.4227855 --> 00:31:17,148.4224803
Mm-hmm.

455
00:31:17,148.4224803 --> 00:31:20,378.4258373
Say no to Instacart, and yes to shopping carts.

456
00:31:20,908.4246166 --> 00:31:21,578.4227855
Bravo.

457
00:31:21,728.4243114 --> 00:31:22,518.4252269
Good one, Dan.

458
00:31:22,608.4215648 --> 00:31:23,278.4197337
Absolutely.

459
00:31:24,408.4227855 --> 00:31:55,426.1665835
You can't bend the truth, baby From Bandworthy to Bingeworthy Who gets to be a citizen of the United States at birth? When it comes to sports in school, who gets to compete with the girls? And how much power does the president actually have to hire and fire at independent agencies? These are some of the key questions before the US Supreme Court this term.

460
00:31:55,876.1673464 --> 00:32:02,836.1664309
And as any good lawyer knows, whether you win or lose in the highest court depends on the facts, the evidence, and how you frame your arguments.

461
00:32:03,196.1670412 --> 00:32:05,276.166965
But that's not the only thing that matters.

462
00:32:05,726.1677279 --> 00:32:19,426.1665835
I'm Laura Jarrett, senior legal correspondent at NBC News, and this month, in a new series for our Here's the Scoop podcast, I'm talking to legal experts and lawyers whose past legal victories are now the building blocks for the biggest cases still left to be decided.

463
00:32:19,866.1652102 --> 00:32:24,316.1659731
I wanna know how they convinced the court they were right when the stakes were high.

464
00:32:24,446.1670412 --> 00:32:31,556.1676516
What special sauce locked it in? And what could be different this time around? Join us for Here's the Scoop: Supreme Court Edition.

465
00:32:31,926.1665835 --> 00:32:33,536.1671938
New episodes every Saturday.

466
00:32:33,816.1659731 --> 00:32:38,576.1681094
You can find Here's the Scoop from NBC News on YouTube and wherever you get your podcasts.

467
00:32:41,178.166888 --> 00:32:47,558.1667361
Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't.

468
00:32:47,868.1666788 --> 00:32:56,158.1671175
When all is said and done, what is the endgame? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, Why Is This Happening?, I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.

469
00:32:56,558.1667361 --> 00:33:01,858.1659731
We're at, right now in a situation where it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.

470
00:33:02,228.1668124 --> 00:33:06,178.1675753
Why Is This Happening?, The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from MS Now.

471
00:33:06,368.166202 --> 00:33:10,564.1162791
Start listening today wherever you get your podcasts Right.

472
00:33:10,564.1162791 --> 00:33:14,174.1165021
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.

473
00:33:14,524.1164067 --> 00:33:17,774.1164067
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

474
00:33:17,884.1160634 --> 00:33:21,764.1161778
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,

475
00:33:21,764.1161778 --> 00:33:24,254.1159489
and remember that's band with two Ns.

476
00:33:24,584.1158726 --> 00:33:35,494.1166737
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

477
00:33:35,494.1166737 --> 00:33:36,424.1169789
I think you'll like it.

478
00:33:36,924.1169789 --> 00:33:38,714.1159871
Yes, little quid pro quo.

479
00:33:39,404.1165211 --> 00:33:44,424.1150715
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

480
00:33:44,894.1162923 --> 00:33:49,454.1176655
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.

481
00:33:49,694.1155293 --> 00:33:54,314.1144612
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.

482
00:33:54,904.1146138 --> 00:33:56,384.1179707
And resist when it matters.