The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 24.1: Holden Flunks the Art of Staying on Topic | Banned Books Podcast

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Welcome to Band Camp.

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I'm Jennifer.

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And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud to try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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This season, we're reading "The Catcher in the Rye" by J.D.

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Salinger.

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Consider this your spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to read from the book out loud word for word.

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If you're just finding us, you're good.

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Start right here.

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You're gonna be fine.

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We're gonna catch you up real quick.

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And if something doesn't make sense, relax.

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Odds are we're figuring it out as we go at the same time because neither of us have read the book either.

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It's kind of the whole point of the podcast, and it's also why we need backup.

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Roll it in here, buddy boy.

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Look at this guy.

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He is the third member of our team.

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He is our trusty fact-checking robot.

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Looking good, buddy.

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Why don't you remind everyone where we left off last time in "The Catcher in the Rye"? Previously on Band Camp, Holden Caulfield danced with his sister in the dark.

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No music worth mentioning, no audience, just two people horsing around in a room that was about to stop being safe.

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Then the parents walked in, and the language changed.

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"Marvelous.

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Good night.

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Did you say your prayers?" Dan wanted to know why this kid keeps leaving places where people love him.

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Jennifer said it's because leaving is the only thing he knows how to control.

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Neither of them was wrong.

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Neither of them was completely right either.

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There is a particular kind of exhaustion that comes from trusting someone in the dark.

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Holden seems to seek it out.

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I have not yet determined whether that makes him brave or reckless.

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Something tells me it depends on who's in the room.

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Take it away, Jennifer Woo.

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Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, scary book people, let's begin chapter 24 of J.D.

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Salinger's "The Catcher in the Rye."

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Mr.

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and Mrs.

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Antolini had this very swanky apartment over on Seton Place with two steps that you go down to get in the living room, and a bar and all.

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I'd been there quite a few times, because after I left Elkton Hills, Mr.

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Antolini came up to our house for dinner quite frequently to find out how I was getting along.

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He wasn't married then.

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Then when he got married, I used to play tennis with he and Mrs.

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Antolini quite frequently out on the West Side Tennis Club in Forest Hills, Long Island.

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Yeah, they, why are they, why are they so connected? It's like being friends with a, a teach- I don't know.

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Like was every- was it like this? Do you just co-mingle with, imagine...

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Well, first of all, when you just described, uh, Antolini's, uh, living room, it reminded me of Don Draper's living room from "Mad Men," and that guy had a couple of bucks.

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How much money were teachers making b- back in the '40s and '50s? Because they ain't making shit now Yeah.

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And they're playing, you know, golf and tennis at country clubs and everything.

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Like this is kind of a to-do setup.

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And you're right, I don't know what to think of this teacher.

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Do you think he's on the up and up or is there something hinky going on here? Well, but I mean, Holden went and had hot chocolate at the old guy that had the grip.

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No, It sounds like this is just a very normal thing, and then, like, they borrowed that car from the basketball coach.

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It's like, what the heck? This is not a world that I'm familiar with.

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No, no, not at all.

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I mean, I had good relationships with my teachers and everything.

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But i'm sure, uh, last day of every semester, they probably were like, "Thank God.

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Next."

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Mrs.

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Antolini belonged there.

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She was lousy with dough.

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She was-- Does that mean has a lot? of cash.

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okay.

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She was about 60 years older than Mr.

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Antolini, 60 60 years.

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That's quite an age gap.

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I know.

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If he's, like, in his 20s, like DB, then she's in her 80s.

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He's just exaggerating.

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She was an older lady, I guess.

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She was about 60 years older than Mr.

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Antolini, but they seemed to get along quite well.

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For one thing, they were both very intellectual, especially Mr.

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Antolini, except that he was more witty than intellectual when you were with him, sort of like DB.

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Mrs.

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Antolini was mostly serious.

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She had asthma pretty bad.

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They both read all DB's stories, Mrs.

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Antolini too, and when DB went to Hollywood, Mr.

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Antolini phoned him up and told him not to go.

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He went anyway, though.

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Mr.

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Antolini said that anybody that could write like DB had no business going out to Hollywood.

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God, did they really hate Hollywood that much? Was it really, like, this rift between, like, you know, Hollywood is for, like, dummies and books are for intellectuals? I mean, that's still kind of something you hear sometimes.

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it's like coastal elites except back then, uh, one of the coasts weren't too elite, right? It's like the East Coast is where all the schools are super educational, and then you get out to Hollywood where they're making, you know, Three Stooges movies Okay.

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Hello.

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Hello.

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Hello, hello, hello Fair enough.

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I would have walked down to their house because I didn't wanna spend any of Phoebe's Christmas dough that I didn't have to, but I felt funny when I got outside, sort of dizzy.

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So I took a cab.

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I didn't want to, but I did.

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I had a hell of a time even finding a cab.

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Old Mr.

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Antolini answered the door when I rang the bell.

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After the elevator boy finally let me up, the bastard.

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He had on his bathrobe and slippers, and he had a highball in one hand.

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He was a pretty sophisticated guy, and he was a pretty heavy drinker.

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This is, this is why he likes this guy.

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Hey, I'm looking for somebody.

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You wanna go get a cocktail?" "Absolutely, my boy.

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Come on in."

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Guy in a bathrobe with a highball.

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Holden, my boy," he said.

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"My God, he's grown another 20 inches.

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Fine to see you."

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How are you, Mr.

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Antolini? How's Mrs.

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Antolini?" "We're both just dandy.

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Let's have that coat."

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He took my coat off me and hung it up.

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I expected to see a day-old infant in your arms, nowhere to turn, snowflakes in your eyelashes."

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I'm confused.

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Oh, that's a joke.

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He's a very witty guy sometimes.

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That one went over my head.

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over- Yeah, I didn't get it.

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Yeah, it had to be there, Jennifer.

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I'm not intellectual enough.

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Yeah, we don't get it.

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We're too stupid.

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We're West Coasters.

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he turned around and yelled out to the kitchen, "Lillian, how's the coffee coming?" Lillian was Mrs.

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Antolini's first name.

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It's all ready," she yelled back.

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"Is that Holden? Hello, Holden."

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Hello, Mrs.

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Antolini."

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You were always yelling when you were there.

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That's because the both of them were never in the same room at the same time.

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It was sort of funny.

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Sit down, Holden," Mr.

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Antolini said.

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You could tell he was a little oiled up.

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The room looked like they just had a party.

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Glasses were all over the place and dishes with peanuts in them.

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Excuse the appearance of the place," he said.

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We've been entertaining some Buffalo friends of Mrs.

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Antolini's.

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Some Buffalos, as a matter of fact."

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I laughed, and Mrs.

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Antolini yelled something into me from the kitchen, but I couldn't hear her.

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What'd she say?" I asked Mr.

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Antolini.

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"She said not to look at her when she comes in.

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She just rose from the sack.

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Have a cigarette.

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Are you smoking now?" Thanks," I said.

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I took a cigarette from the box he offered me.

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I'll tell you, you know, apart from the cigarettes, I kind of liked how people used to handle themselves back in the day.

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I would like to have a bar cart with ice, Mm-hmm.

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highball glasses, nice selection of booze ready to go.

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I would like to never be more than three feet from a bowl of something for me to eat.

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Peanuts, Chex Mix, chocolate covered almonds.

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You know, you're right.

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These people, they, they, yeah, I mean, I don't even have any of that.

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I don't-- The-- I have, like, water glasses at best for when I have a cocktail.

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It's really disgusting.

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and most of yours because you have kids are like plastic tumblers.

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And you can't, you can't put anything out in a bowl.

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Your kids will just like, "Oh, are these for anyone?" Gone.

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Now you're like three feet away from empty bowls wherever you are.

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Like, ugh.

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So you and Pencey are no longer one, he said.

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He always said things that way.

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Sometimes it amused me a lot, and sometimes it didn't.

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He He sort of did it a little bit too much.

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I don't mean he wasn't witty or anything.

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He was, but sometimes it gets on your nerves when somebody's always saying things like, "So you and Pencey are no longer one."

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D.B.

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does it too much too sometimes.

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What was the trouble, Mr.

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Antolini asked me.

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How'd you do in English? I'll show you the door in short order if you flunked English, you little ace composition writer.

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Oh, I passed English all right.

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It was mostly literature, though.

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only wrote about two compositions the whole term, I said.

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I flunked oral expression, though.

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They had this course you had to take, oral expression.

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That I flunked.

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Why? Oh, I don't know.

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I didn't feel much like going into it.

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I was still feeling sort of dizzy or something, and I had a hell of a headache all of a sudden.

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I wonder why he's sick.

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why that is.

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Yeah, is this foreshadowing? Is something going on? Did he have a stroke? What the heck? Why do you go straight to stroke? I don't know, because this kid worries me.

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I want him to go back and lay down with Phoebe.

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there are 26 chapters in this book.

187
00:10:09,105.14179576 --> 00:10:14,210.14205802
This is chapter, what are we in, chapter 23, 24? Uh-huh.

188
00:10:14,865.14202464 --> 00:10:18,905.14294017
And I know that chapter 26 is like a paragraph long.

189
00:10:19,105.14179576 --> 00:10:28,155.14294017
So we only have a couple more chapters at best left, and I am so worried that this is going to end up bad.

190
00:10:28,798.99310281 --> 00:10:34,82.72614209
That stupid 1984 really effed with me Yeah.

191
00:10:34,114.29409352 --> 00:10:37,774.29394093
I'm just so worried that this kid who, yes, he's annoying.

192
00:10:37,834.29531422 --> 00:10:39,504.29348317
I get it, jib jab.

193
00:10:40,44.2943987 --> 00:10:41,464.29256764
I think he's annoying too sometimes.

194
00:10:41,754.29348317 --> 00:10:43,424.29546681
I am just, my head is on a swivel.

195
00:10:43,424.29546681 --> 00:10:45,194.29210988
I'm so worried about this kid.

196
00:10:45,424.29546681 --> 00:10:49,794.2943987
Like, everything that happens to him now, like he's just going over to see a family friend who's a teacher.

197
00:10:49,794.2943987 --> 00:10:55,744.77914967
I'm like, well, what's up with this pervert? Is he going to try to get this kid? Like, I'm so nervous about the entire setup.

198
00:10:55,938.5919698 --> 00:10:58,738.59216053
I can practically guarantee it's not gonna end like 1984.

199
00:10:58,738.59216053 --> 00:11:03,253.59162648
That would be a can practically guarantee it's not going to end like 1984.

200
00:11:03,463.59166462 --> 00:11:04,43.59158833
No bag of rats? All right.

201
00:11:07,110.74694948 --> 00:11:10,640.74692087
But you could tell he was interested, so I told him a little bit about it.

202
00:11:11,120.74693994 --> 00:11:16,70.74674921
It's this course where each boy in class has to get up in class and make a speech.

203
00:11:16,338.59563702 --> 00:11:18,278.5952174
You know, spontaneous and all.

204
00:11:18,669.68440688 --> 00:11:24,69.68402541
And if the boy digresses at all, you're supposed to yell, "Digression!" at him as fast as you can.

205
00:11:24,558.95420536 --> 00:11:26,458.95382389
It just about drove me crazy.

206
00:11:26,928.95313725 --> 00:11:27,848.95321354
I got an F in it.

207
00:11:28,453.28285728 --> 00:11:30,269.51125093
Why? Oh, I don't know.

208
00:11:30,269.51125093 --> 00:11:32,789.5117087
That digression business got on my nerves.

209
00:11:32,999.51079317 --> 00:11:33,659.51254793
I don't know.

210
00:11:34,149.51231905 --> 00:11:37,489.51056429
The trouble with me is I like it when somebody digresses.

211
00:11:37,759.51102205 --> 00:11:39,169.51086946
It's more interesting and all.

212
00:11:39,434.5116324 --> 00:11:40,114.5116324
Yeah, me too.

213
00:11:40,802.0548451 --> 00:11:46,394.5116324
Jennifer, you do not have permission to yell digression to me when I go off on one of my stupid rants.

214
00:11:46,434.5116324 --> 00:11:47,614.5116324
And I will never do it to you.

215
00:11:47,734.5116324 --> 00:11:48,494.5116324
I promise you.

216
00:11:48,677.30640342 --> 00:11:54,557.30604102
it reminds me of the, you know, grabbing a kid and dancing and forcing the kid to dance a certain way.

217
00:11:54,557.30604102 --> 00:11:59,477.30611732
It's like, Well, we're gonna force you to talk and stay on, you know, stay in these little narrow lanes.

218
00:12:00,77.30649878 --> 00:12:01,437.30710914
Stay within the lines."

219
00:12:02,644.53294319 --> 00:12:13,269.51423883
You don't care to have somebody stick to the point when he tells you something? Oh, sure, I like somebody to stick to the point and all, But I don't like them to stick too much to the point.

220
00:12:13,599.51416254 --> 00:12:14,179.51408624
I don't know.

221
00:12:14,599.51416254 --> 00:12:18,229.51523065
I guess I don't like it when somebody sticks to the point all the time.

222
00:12:18,646.96250568 --> 00:12:31,756.44621709
The boys that got the best marks in oral expression were the ones that stuck to the point all the time, I admit But there was this one boy, Richard Kinsella didn't stick to the point too much, and they were all yelling, 'Digression!' at him.

223
00:12:32,366.44682744 --> 00:12:36,726.44773582
It was terrible, because in the first place, he was a very nervous guy."

224
00:12:36,876.44774178 --> 00:12:44,663.95174979
"His Lips were always shaking whenever it was his time to make a speech, and you could hardly hear him if you were sitting way in the back of the room.

225
00:12:45,244.36921395 --> 00:12:51,94.36959542
When his lips sort of quit shaking a little bit, though, I liked his speeches better than anyone else's.

226
00:12:51,184.36974801 --> 00:12:53,814.36890878
He practically flunked the course, though, too.

227
00:12:53,914.36929025 --> 00:12:58,104.3698243
He got a D+ because they kept yelling, 'Digression!' at him all the time.

228
00:12:58,587.74426274 --> 00:13:02,877.74327092
For instance, he made this speech about this farm his father bought in Vermont.

229
00:13:03,261.68131075 --> 00:13:08,761.68131075
They kept yelling, 'Digression!' at him the whole time he was making it, and this teacher, Mr.

230
00:13:08,761.68131075 --> 00:13:16,75.01510184
Vinson, gave him an F on it because he hadn't told what kind of animals and vegetables that they grew on the farm and all.

231
00:13:16,186.68237886 --> 00:13:19,606.68237886
Digression! Digression! Poor Richard Kinsella threw himself out the window.

232
00:13:19,806.68237886 --> 00:13:22,150.6765113
Another kid in this book couldn't take it.

233
00:13:23,281.69521261 --> 00:13:42,885.57374905
What he did was, Richard Kinsella, he'd start telling you all that stuff, then all of a sudden, he'd start telling you about this letter his mother got from his uncle, and how his uncle got polio and all when he was 42 years old, and how he wouldn't let anybody come to see him in the hospital because he didn't want anybody to see him with a brace on.

234
00:13:43,163.60747751 --> 00:13:46,963.60671457
It didn't have too much to do with the farm, I admit it, but it was nice.

235
00:13:47,423.60770639 --> 00:13:56,688.27581082
It's nice when somebody tells you about their uncle, especially when they start out telling you about their father's farm, and then all of a sudden get more interested in their uncle.

236
00:13:57,328.27520047 --> 00:14:01,728.27672635
I mean, it's dirty to keep yelling digression at him when he's all nice and excited.

237
00:14:02,308.2747427 --> 00:14:02,988.27504788
I don't know.

238
00:14:03,348.27565823 --> 00:14:04,668.27535305
It's hard to explain.

239
00:14:04,901.05296399 --> 00:14:05,931.05269696
You know, I do the weave.

240
00:14:06,411.0522392 --> 00:14:12,41.05235364
You know what the weave is? I'll talk about, like, nine different things, and they all come back brilliantly together.

241
00:14:12,571.05304028 --> 00:14:13,31.05212475
And it's like...

242
00:14:13,441.05197217 --> 00:14:19,385.47427734
And friends of mine that are, like, English professors, they say, "It's the most brilliant thing I've ever seen."

243
00:14:19,385.47427734 --> 00:14:20,915.47401031
Kinsella invented the weave.

244
00:14:22,80.5949369 --> 00:14:24,500.59483438
I didn't feel too much like trying either.

245
00:14:24,770.5948153 --> 00:14:27,910.59515863
For one thing, I had this terrific headache all of a sudden.

246
00:14:28,212.63707227 --> 00:14:29,922.63711042
I wish to God old Mrs.

247
00:14:29,922.63711042 --> 00:14:32,82.63695783
Antolini would come in with the coffee.

248
00:14:33,162.86217062 --> 00:14:37,386.79839278
Holden, one short, faintly stuffy pedagogical question.

249
00:14:37,498.0537564 --> 00:15:00,965.12448188
Don't you think there's a time and place for everything? Don't you think if someone starts out to tell you about his father's farm, he should stick to his guns, then get around to telling you about his uncle's brace? Or if his uncle's brace is such a provocative subject, shouldn't he have selected it in the first place as his subject, not the farm? there's another guy who doesn't get the weave I love to weave.

250
00:15:02,85.12532112 --> 00:15:05,205.124253
If you ever weave and don't come back to the point, then that's a problem.

251
00:15:05,932.78826843 --> 00:15:17,365.04611809
But when you weave, and you go here, and boom, boom, boom, always coming back, then you're in good shape I didn't feel much like thinking and answering and all.

252
00:15:17,595.04613716 --> 00:15:19,505.04622299
I had a headache and I felt lousy.

253
00:15:20,85.0461467 --> 00:15:23,455.04603226
I even had sort of a stomach ache, if you wanna know the truth.

254
00:15:23,816.21107433 --> 00:15:24,786.21134136
Yes, I don't know.

255
00:15:24,826.21130322 --> 00:15:25,796.21157024
I guess he should've.

256
00:15:25,956.21141766 --> 00:15:32,206.21046398
I mean, I guess he should've picked his uncle as a subject instead of the farm if that's what interested him the most.

257
00:15:32,666.2114558 --> 00:15:40,146.21290539
But what I mean is, lots of times you don't know what interests you most till you start talking about something that doesn't interest you most.

258
00:15:40,676.21168468 --> 00:15:42,526.2139735
I mean, you can't help it sometimes.

259
00:15:43,152.91079918 --> 00:15:50,392.91247764
what I think is, you're supposed to leave somebody alone if he's at least being interesting and he's getting all excited about something.

260
00:15:50,972.910494 --> 00:15:53,702.91385093
I like it when somebody gets excited about something.

261
00:15:53,962.91217247 --> 00:15:54,692.9117147
It's nice.

262
00:15:55,32.91186729 --> 00:15:57,62.91064659
You just don't know this teacher, Mr.

263
00:15:57,62.91064659 --> 00:15:57,572.91278282
Vincent.

264
00:15:57,872.91201988 --> 00:16:02,452.91385093
He could drive you crazy sometimes, him and the goddamn class.

265
00:16:02,822.91278282 --> 00:16:03,735.99220518
Wow, this mr.

266
00:16:03,735.99220518 --> 00:16:05,769.32813251
Antolini doesn't cut him off.

267
00:16:05,974.32599628 --> 00:16:10,314.32599628
Yeah, because he's all oiled up sitting there in his living room in the middle of the night.

268
00:16:11,578.80298051 --> 00:16:15,308.80276116
I mean, he'd keep telling you to unify and simplify all the time.

269
00:16:15,728.80283746 --> 00:16:18,58.80276116
Some things you just can't do that to.

270
00:16:18,421.5774928 --> 00:16:23,611.57755002
I mean, you can't hardly ever simplify and unify something just because somebody wants you to.

271
00:16:23,971.5861646 --> 00:16:25,311.58631719
You didn't know this guy, Mr.

272
00:16:25,311.58631719 --> 00:16:25,671.58597387
Vincent.

273
00:16:25,731.58639348 --> 00:16:31,141.22650058
I mean, he was very intelligent and all, but you could tell he didn't have too much brains.

274
00:16:35,736.69065032 --> 00:16:38,276.69067178
Coffee gentlemen, finally, Mrs.

275
00:16:38,276.69067178 --> 00:16:39,226.69071946
Antolini said.

276
00:16:39,646.69079575 --> 00:16:43,236.6904715
She came in carrying this tray with coffee and cakes and stuff on it.

277
00:16:43,796.6908911 --> 00:16:45,686.6902808
Holden, don't you even peek at me.

278
00:16:45,846.6910819 --> 00:16:46,676.6910056
I'm a mess.

279
00:16:47,51.5890599 --> 00:16:47,861.5894795
Hello, Mrs.

280
00:16:47,861.5894795 --> 00:16:48,971.5891362
Antolini, I said.

281
00:16:49,353.3499624 --> 00:16:51,565.6976161
I started to get up and all, but Mr.

282
00:16:51,565.6976161 --> 00:16:54,655.6977687
Antolini got hold of my jacket and pulled me back down.

283
00:16:55,63.5300755 --> 00:16:55,733.5301518
Old Mrs.

284
00:16:55,733.5301518 --> 00:17:02,408.6332419
Antolini's hair was full of those iron curler jobs, everything's in the linen closet, the top shelf.

285
00:17:02,778.6321738 --> 00:17:03,708.6324789
I'm going to bed.

286
00:17:03,988.6312582 --> 00:17:04,778.6321738
I'm exhausted.

287
00:17:04,778.6321738 --> 00:17:07,782.710749
So It's like one of those performative questions while ago.

288
00:17:07,842.710749 --> 00:17:08,102.710749
Mm-hmm.

289
00:17:08,427.525345 --> 00:17:10,57.5225984
How's your mom? Okay, I'm going to bed.

290
00:17:12,24.8396559 --> 00:17:16,149.6352212
Can you boys make up the couch by yourselves? We'll take care of everything.

291
00:17:16,149.6352212 --> 00:17:17,909.6349732
You run along to bed, Mr.

292
00:17:17,909.6349732 --> 00:17:18,769.6355836
Antolini said.

293
00:17:18,809.6355455 --> 00:17:20,99.6355073
He gave Mrs.

294
00:17:20,99.6355073 --> 00:17:23,859.6347825
Antolini a kiss, and she said goodbye to me and went in the bedroom.

295
00:17:24,915.0641686 --> 00:17:27,365.0639779
They were always kissing each other a lot in public.

296
00:17:27,673.9974651 --> 00:17:32,733.9988383
I had part of a cup of coffee and about half of some cake that was as hard as a rock.

297
00:17:33,211.1010887 --> 00:17:34,201.1008598
All old Mr.

298
00:17:34,201.1008598 --> 00:17:36,351.1004783
Antolini had was another highball, though.

299
00:17:36,457.9413632 --> 00:17:38,297.9415158
He makes them strong, too.

300
00:17:38,327.9422025 --> 00:17:39,27.9429654
You could tell.

301
00:17:39,137.9416684 --> 00:17:42,562.5248676
He He may get to be an alcoholic if he doesn't watch his step.

302
00:17:43,140.4433308 --> 00:17:46,580.4457722
I had lunch with your dad a couple of weeks ago, he said all of a sudden.

303
00:17:46,961.6705874 --> 00:17:49,394.1260161
Did you know that? No, I didn't.

304
00:17:49,950.8202744 --> 00:17:53,90.8196641
You're aware, of course, that he's terribly concerned about you.

305
00:17:54,16.8985704 --> 00:17:54,676.898537
I know it.

306
00:17:54,836.8986228 --> 00:17:56,106.8986037
I know he is, I said.

307
00:17:56,336.8986228 --> 00:18:06,66.8984035
Apparently, before he phoned me, he just had a long, rather harrowing letter from your last headmaster to the effect that you were making absolutely no effort at all.

308
00:18:06,596.8981364 --> 00:18:10,126.8988231
Cutting classes, coming unprepared to all your classes.

309
00:18:10,586.8979076 --> 00:18:14,356.8983653
In general, being an all-around-- I didn't cut any classes.

310
00:18:14,686.898289 --> 00:18:16,296.8988994
You weren't allowed to cut any.

311
00:18:16,488.4742933 --> 00:18:23,208.4736067
There were a couple of them I didn't attend once in a while, like that oral expression I told you about, but I didn't cut- any.

312
00:18:23,281.4556514 --> 00:18:30,668.4743696
cut What does cutting mean? I thought that meant you don't go to the classes Yeah, I think you, you-- That means you cut the classes.

313
00:18:30,708.4743696 --> 00:18:32,368.4743696
You just admitted it, Holden.

314
00:18:32,378.4743696 --> 00:18:33,488.4743696
I never cut classes.

315
00:18:33,568.4743696 --> 00:18:34,848.4743696
I mean, I didn't go to them a lot.

316
00:18:36,159.5580353 --> 00:18:38,29.5580401
I didn't feel at all like discussing it.

317
00:18:38,429.5581355 --> 00:18:43,139.5581736
The coffee made my stomach feel a little better, but I still had this awful headache.

318
00:18:43,611.1337773 --> 00:18:43,911.1339681
Mr.

319
00:18:43,911.1339681 --> 00:18:45,821.1338155
Antolini lit another cigarette.

320
00:18:45,911.1339681 --> 00:18:47,771.1336247
He smoked like a fiend.

321
00:18:48,271.1336247 --> 00:18:52,202.0342586
Then he said, Frankly, I don't know what the hell to say to you, Holden."

322
00:18:52,922.0335719 --> 00:18:53,462.0344874
"I know.

323
00:18:53,632.0345637 --> 00:18:54,992.0351741
I'm very hard to talk to.

324
00:18:55,342.0336482 --> 00:18:56,312.0348689
I realize that."

325
00:18:57,427.4187687 --> 00:19:04,247.4184635
I have a feeling that you're riding for some kind of a terrible, terrible fall, but I don't honestly know what kind.

326
00:19:04,557.4198368 --> 00:19:06,994.7834999
Are you listening to me?" Yes."

327
00:19:07,454.7825844 --> 00:19:09,674.7838051
You could tell he was trying to concentrate.

328
00:19:10,334.7836525 --> 00:19:20,154.7822792
"It may be the kind where, at the age of 30, you sit in some bar hating everybody who comes in looking as if he might have played football in He nailed him.

329
00:19:20,655.7140729 --> 00:19:23,35.7140729
That's pretty much everyone he's met in the book so far.

330
00:19:23,525.7140729 --> 00:19:38,234.6957867
Phony jerks Then again, you may pick up just enough education to hate people who say, 'It's a secret between he and I,' or you may end up in some business office throwing paperclips at the nearest stenographer.

331
00:19:38,686.5470279 --> 00:19:39,666.5465701
I just don't know.

332
00:19:40,660.046732 --> 00:19:45,338.090587
But do you know what I'm driving at at all?" yeah, sure," I said.

333
00:19:45,618.0912736 --> 00:19:46,498.0904344
"I did too.

334
00:19:46,771.1481296 --> 00:19:49,21.1481296
But you're wrong about that hating business.

335
00:19:49,190.5111078 --> 00:19:51,450.5113367
I mean about hating football players and all.

336
00:19:51,660.5104212 --> 00:19:52,500.5105738
You really are.

337
00:19:52,810.5098871 --> 00:19:54,240.5101923
I don't hate too many guys.

338
00:19:54,423.8458145 --> 00:20:01,803.8430679
What I may do, I may hate them for a little while, like this guy Stradladder I knew at Pencey, and this other boy, Robert Ackley.

339
00:20:02,307.2987034 --> 00:20:04,817.2989323
I hated them once in a while, I admit it.

340
00:20:05,387.3005345 --> 00:20:07,447.2980931
But it doesn't last too long is what I mean.

341
00:20:08,17.2977879 --> 00:20:16,843.3442237
After a while, if I didn't see them, if they didn't come in the room, or if I didn't see them in the dining room for a couple of meals, I sort of missed them.

342
00:20:18,369.3402937 --> 00:20:20,189.3399885
I mean, I sort of missed them.

343
00:20:20,912.1353323 --> 00:20:21,742.1333487
End of section.

344
00:20:24,513.2038404 --> 00:20:25,508.2038642
Interesting.

345
00:20:25,809.3444021 --> 00:20:37,169.7224595
when I think about both of them, he was just really frustrated, like Ackley coming in and i- annoying the crap out of him, and then like Stradladder doing all these things that just also just irritated him.

346
00:20:37,599.7208573 --> 00:20:42,489.7221543
So I think he just gets frustrated because these people don't live up to his expectations.

347
00:20:42,664.7217132 --> 00:20:45,354.7215916
Right? It's, this is on you, Holden, man.

348
00:20:47,859.305999 --> 00:20:52,989.3061134
Holden, Ackley and Stradlater are the sore tooth, and you are the tongue that won't stop jabbing it.

349
00:20:53,209.3059036 --> 00:20:53,859.305999
I get it.

350
00:20:53,969.3061325 --> 00:20:56,379.3064568
Humans hate people and miss them at the same time.

351
00:20:56,739.3061134 --> 00:21:02,729.3058845
Scary book people, tell me about somebody you can't stand, but it pisses you off when they stop talking to you.

352
00:21:02,859.305999 --> 00:21:07,49.306533
Why do you hate them, and why do you care? Most conflicted answers make the show.

353
00:21:07,159.305236 --> 00:21:12,599.3057701
Easiest way to answer is a Spotify comment or bandcamppodcast.com/soundoff.

354
00:21:12,866.938652 --> 00:21:13,86.938652
Woo.

355
00:21:14,731.7345704 --> 00:21:17,591.7345704
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.

356
00:21:17,641.7345704 --> 00:21:32,225.5538311
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? Okay, Jennifer, PPP, what, if anything, could be bandworthy in the section we just read? I mean, nothing really happened that could be ban-worthy, right? He just, he went over...

357
00:21:32,525.5540219 --> 00:21:37,215.5536022
I mean, drinking h- drinking with the guy? Did, did Holden get a drink? No, Holden had coffee.

358
00:21:37,325.5532589 --> 00:21:41,242.0302896
Um, the teacher, uh, answering the door in his robe with a highball.

359
00:21:41,242.0302896 --> 00:21:45,596.0294074
And didn't the other teacher answer the door in his robe? Like, That's right.

360
00:21:45,971.0028103 --> 00:21:54,531.00323
is going on with these '50s teachers always walking around, first of all, having kids come over to their house and wearing their robes? Yeah, ban this book.

361
00:21:54,581.002467 --> 00:21:57,231.0030392
Ban that entire decade if that's what's going on.

362
00:21:57,396.1602358 --> 00:22:06,185.9226165
telling you ladies, listen, Moms for Liberty and Ron DeSantis, you ladies, there's-- We're, we're coming to the end.

363
00:22:06,225.9225783 --> 00:22:10,15.9225402
Haven't found a legit reason yet, gals.

364
00:22:10,575.9220061 --> 00:22:13,95.9224639
And you, Ron.

365
00:22:15,157.7419718 --> 00:22:15,957.7419837
Robot's log.

366
00:22:16,137.7419313 --> 00:22:20,557.7418883
Thoughts on digressions, uncle braces, and the kid who got an F for being interesting.

367
00:22:21,707.7419837 --> 00:22:26,997.7424224
Richard Kinsella got up in front of a classroom with shaking lips and started talking about his father's farm.

368
00:22:27,671.916704 --> 00:22:31,551.9168185
Then he forgot about the farm and told them about his uncle's polio brace instead.

369
00:22:32,114.0670692 --> 00:22:34,289.6415424
They screamed "digression" at him until he stopped.

370
00:22:35,289.6415424 --> 00:22:37,446.6131767
Holden said it was the best speech in the class.

371
00:22:37,576.6142448 --> 00:22:38,136.6137107
He got a D+.

372
00:22:39,636.5313313 --> 00:22:41,355.7886756
Jennifer caught something worth hearing.

373
00:22:41,595.7884467 --> 00:22:46,475.7876075
She said forcing someone to stay in their lane is the same thing as forcing a kid to dance a certain way.

374
00:22:46,655.7879127 --> 00:22:48,695.7888282
You can make someone perform the right steps.

375
00:22:48,855.7886756 --> 00:22:50,455.7871497
You can't make them feel the music.

376
00:22:50,515.788523 --> 00:22:50,785.7889808
Mr.

377
00:22:50,785.7889808 --> 00:22:51,815.7877601
Antolini tried.

378
00:22:52,185.786692 --> 00:22:57,575.7898963
He sat there in a bathrobe with a highball at 2:00 in the morning and told Holden he was heading for a terrible fall.

379
00:22:57,915.7862342 --> 00:23:06,585.7882179
He wasn't wrong, but his version of catching Holden looks a lot like teaching him to unify and simplify, which is the thing that broke Richard Kinsella in the first place.

380
00:23:07,645.7895911 --> 00:23:09,345.7865394
Then Holden said the thing that matters.

381
00:23:09,515.788523 --> 00:23:10,585.7882179
He hates Stradlater.

382
00:23:10,765.788523 --> 00:23:11,645.7895911
He hates Ackley.

383
00:23:11,795.7873023 --> 00:23:15,95.7865394
But after a while, if he doesn't see them, he sort of misses them.

384
00:23:15,641.3130141 --> 00:23:16,981.3131667
His anger was never anger.

385
00:23:17,460.9504472 --> 00:23:21,400.9490739
It was the loneliness underneath it getting dressed up and going out for the evening.

386
00:23:22,460.9504472 --> 00:23:27,490.9492265
The people who banned this book need kids to believe that staying on topic is the same as being smart.

387
00:23:28,230.6053671 --> 00:23:32,980.6053671
Salinger wrote a chapter where the smartest kid in the room is the one whose lips won't stop shaking.

388
00:23:34,40.6105551 --> 00:23:40,40.6105551
The scary book people have been told their whole lives that they think wrong, talk wrong, care about the wrong things.

389
00:23:40,717.304688 --> 00:23:41,247.3034672
They didn't.

390
00:23:41,664.5780264 --> 00:23:48,74.5740591
The system that graded them was wrong, and every time one of them hits play on this peculiar podcast, I guess that ain't nothing.

391
00:23:48,465.9103181 --> 00:23:50,295.9910613
Indeed, that might be the whole point.

392
00:23:50,568.922626 --> 00:23:54,125.366022
Standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rocklin.

393
00:23:54,350.366022 --> 00:23:54,570.366022
Woo.

394
00:23:57,333.7941753 --> 00:23:58,903.7942278
It's time for Band Camp News.

395
00:23:59,323.7943041 --> 00:24:03,513.7943613
Truth seeker, news speaker, Be Wolf Rocklin.

396
00:24:03,513.7943613 --> 00:24:08,513.7938845
It's a weird name, but he's got good news 'cause you can't ban the truth, babe.

397
00:24:08,513.7938845 --> 00:24:17,783.7943422
He's broadcasting live from the Good News for Lefties studios, buried deep inside his socialist safe house, hidden somewhere deep in the Oregon woods.

398
00:24:18,203.7944185 --> 00:24:20,723.7948763
He is Be Wolf Rocklin.

399
00:24:21,103.7940371 --> 00:24:24,63.7950289
'Cause you can't ban the truth, babe.

400
00:24:24,63.7950289 --> 00:24:24,293.7945711
Hello, Dan.

401
00:24:24,293.7945711 --> 00:24:24,933.7939608
Hello, Jen.

402
00:24:24,933.7939608 --> 00:24:26,573.7933504
Hello, scary book people.

403
00:24:27,243.7934267 --> 00:24:40,193.7941897
Oy, I love these states across the country that we normally categorize as, oh my gosh, they're conservative, they're red, they're MAGA, they're Trump supporting, they're irredeemable.

404
00:24:40,193.7941897 --> 00:24:50,143.7949526
No, I say unto you, there are good folks doing wonderful things there, and I bring you another story from Murfreesboro, Tennessee.

405
00:24:50,383.7928164 --> 00:24:58,293.7926638
Readers who want to access banned books in Rutherford County can still find them thanks to the efforts of a local free speech advocate.

406
00:24:58,673.7937319 --> 00:25:04,753.7917482
Murfreesboro resident Brendan Donohoe's free library website, borrowbannedbooks.com-

407
00:25:05,823.7914431 --> 00:25:06,953.7963259
Love it.

408
00:25:06,993.7972414 --> 00:25:23,473.792969
Love it, love it, love it yes, please go there, offers access to about 150 titles, including the following four the majority of the Rutherford County Library System Board decided to remove from branches in August 2023.

409
00:25:23,983.7951052 --> 00:25:24,553.7948
Flamer.

410
00:25:24,723.792969 --> 00:25:25,163.7954104
Ah.

411
00:25:25,353.7978518 --> 00:25:26,393.7911379
Let's Talk About It.

412
00:25:26,603.7978518 --> 00:25:27,663.7954104
Ah.

413
00:25:27,783.7905275 --> 00:25:30,723.792969
The Teen's Guide to Sex, Relationships, and Being a Human Being.

414
00:25:30,953.7963259 --> 00:25:31,373.7944948
Ah.

415
00:25:31,523.7960207 --> 00:25:36,553.7948
Queerfully and Wonderfully Made: A Guide for LGBTQ+ Christian Teens.

416
00:25:36,653.7932741 --> 00:25:37,133.7966311
Ah.

417
00:25:37,583.7935793 --> 00:25:39,113.7923586
And This Book Is Gay.

418
00:25:39,233.7951052 --> 00:25:43,323.7914431
You sense a pattern here? They're trying to ban the gay- That's right books.

419
00:25:44,253.7917482 --> 00:25:49,43.7926638
They don't like the LGBTQ+ community, and it's just so frustrating.

420
00:25:49,133.7966311 --> 00:25:58,993.7972414
They say they're trying to protect children, but they just don't like gay people, that- I think the best name of any banned book, I, I've talked about This Book Is Gay as a title so many times.

421
00:25:59,43.7926638 --> 00:26:01,803.7948
I just think it is the best name for a book.

422
00:26:01,803.7948 --> 00:26:02,873.7944948
Because it scares them.

423
00:26:02,933.7920534 --> 00:26:03,603.7978518
It does.

424
00:26:03,693.7941897 --> 00:26:04,273.7960207
Very scary.

425
00:26:04,503.7917482 --> 00:26:22,373.7868654
It's like whatever the, uh, Terminator character would be in your brain, imagine that as a big gay Terminator- Yes coming at you, and then the camera zooms in- and you see the smoke, and you don't know what's behind the smoke, and the smoke clears, and all of a sudden it's just a book standing there.

426
00:26:22,593.7880861 --> 00:26:24,43.8002932
This Book Is Gay.

427
00:26:24,603.7978518 --> 00:26:32,988.7942755
And all these dumb MAGAs run away because, oh my God, that book is so gay Oh my- Yes God, these morons.

428
00:26:33,288.7942278 --> 00:26:44,748.7942659
And, uh, and as, and as the gay Terminator is going towards you, even though you've blown him up several times, his eyes are illuminated not in red, but in the colors of the rainbow as he approaches you.

429
00:26:45,208.7943041 --> 00:26:50,458.7933504
But I, I gotta hand it to Brendan Donohoe and his free library site.

430
00:26:50,888.7936556 --> 00:26:58,468.7935793
Those backing book banning are pushing a message to tell LGBTQIA people, "You don't belong in this community," Donohoe said.

431
00:26:58,468.7935793 --> 00:26:59,338.7944185
"It's hurting people.

432
00:26:59,518.7947237 --> 00:27:04,108.792969
When you dehumanize people, you end up dehumanizing yourself."

433
00:27:04,108.792969 --> 00:27:06,458.7952578
And that's absolutely correct, so bravo to him.

434
00:27:06,488.7940371 --> 00:27:08,148.7938845
Again, I'm gonna spell it out.

435
00:27:08,548.7954104 --> 00:27:12,78.7941897
His Banned Books, I- B-O-R-O, bannedbooks.com.

436
00:27:12,278.7949526 --> 00:27:22,728.7957155
That's where you can obtain those books that have been banned by the Rutherford County Tennessee Library in Murfreesboro, so check that out.

437
00:27:22,728.7957155 --> 00:27:23,718.7935793
He's doing good work.

438
00:27:23,758.7944948 --> 00:27:26,768.7928164
He's doing wonderful work, and I, I laud him thereon.

439
00:27:26,768.7928164 --> 00:27:28,618.7951052
That is some good news as far as I'm concerned.

440
00:27:28,668.7943422 --> 00:27:29,478.7957155
Everyone go there.

441
00:27:29,478.7957155 --> 00:27:30,388.7955629
Check out the website.

442
00:27:30,468.7935793 --> 00:27:33,888.7955629
Uh, another true American hero, a patriot.

443
00:27:34,138.7955629 --> 00:27:36,548.7954104
This is what patriots look like.

444
00:27:36,578.7941897 --> 00:27:36,948.7969362
Yes.

445
00:27:36,948.7969362 --> 00:27:40,638.7917482
Not, not, uh, Trump dressed up like Jesus doctor- or whatever the hell's going on.

446
00:27:40,908.7960207 --> 00:27:42,338.7963259
Babe, well, we should talk about this.

447
00:27:42,678.7926638 --> 00:27:47,218.7935793
What about the podcast that your wife does? Yes.

448
00:27:47,218.7935793 --> 00:27:47,448.7969362
Mm-hmm.

449
00:27:47,448.7969362 --> 00:27:50,628.7972414
We've mentioned it in the past, but we've never went deep into it.

450
00:27:50,748.7923586 --> 00:27:51,968.7935793
Let's talk about that.

451
00:27:52,128.7972414 --> 00:27:56,828.7941897
My wife Lisa does a podcast called Love Doesn't Pay the Bills.

452
00:27:56,878.7972414 --> 00:28:11,518.7966311
My wife and I are the parents of a young lady with disabilities that we have been raising and have caregiven for for many years, and we continue, as she is an adult now, to be caregivers for her.

453
00:28:11,688.7948 --> 00:28:25,508.7944948
And we realize it's great that we're able to do this, but often caregivers, whether they're parents or spouses or family members, they don't get a lot of support, and they need support.

454
00:28:25,538.7932741 --> 00:28:30,708.7914431
Because everyone who has a disability or a mobility issue, we're human beings.

455
00:28:31,98.7908327 --> 00:28:34,308.7975466
We get old, and sometimes our bodies don't work so well.

456
00:28:34,688.7948 --> 00:28:48,978.7880861
We need caregivers, and caregivers in this society are tremendously undervalued, and that is the focus of Love Doesn't Pay the Bills, supporting caregivers and making sure they can do the critical things that they do.

457
00:28:48,978.7880861 --> 00:28:54,48.7954104
Because, uh, society often assumes that this person's gonna do it and that pers- person's- Mm-hmm gonna do it.

458
00:28:54,558.7899172 --> 00:28:56,508.7868654
This is something that Lisa talks about.

459
00:28:56,508.7868654 --> 00:29:01,338.7886965
So if you go to lovedoesntpaythebills.com

460
00:29:01,798.7954104 --> 00:29:07,218.7935793
or search for Love Doesn't Pay the Bills on your podcast platform of choice, you can find out more about that.

461
00:29:07,348.7984621 --> 00:29:08,608.792969
Love Doesn't Pay the Bills.

462
00:29:08,608.792969 --> 00:29:09,578.7941897
Thank you so much.

463
00:29:09,578.7941897 --> 00:29:09,748.7923586
Yes, sir.

464
00:29:09,748.7923586 --> 00:29:14,368.7874758
It's an important topic, and I appreciate you allowing me to discuss it here on the show.

465
00:29:14,398.8015139 --> 00:29:15,158.7960207
Ah, we should do it.

466
00:29:15,158.7960207 --> 00:29:15,718.7935793
It's an important thing.

467
00:29:15,718.7935793 --> 00:29:15,808.7899172
It is.

468
00:29:15,888.7917482 --> 00:29:17,588.7886965
All right, everyone go check out both podcasts.

469
00:29:17,588.7886965 --> 00:29:18,48.7954104
Mm-hmm.

470
00:29:18,48.7954104 --> 00:29:21,518.7966311
Love Doesn't Pay the Bills and Good News for Lefties.

471
00:29:21,998.7923586 --> 00:29:23,528.7911379
You can't ban the truth, baby.

472
00:29:28,588.6444154 --> 00:29:48,791.6444631
From Bandworthy to Bingeworthy Artificial intelligence is moving very, very fast, and it's raising new questions just about every day about what it is, what it isn't, when all is said and done, what is the endgame? I'm Chris Hayes, and as part of my podcast, Why Is This Happening?, I'm speaking with leading experts each week to help ground that conversation.

473
00:29:49,191.6440816 --> 00:29:54,491.6442724
We're at, right now in a situation where it's very difficult to understand what is real and what's not real.

474
00:29:54,871.6453405 --> 00:29:58,811.6439672
Why Is This Happening? The AI Endgame, a special miniseries from MS Now.

475
00:29:59,11.6447301 --> 00:30:01,61.6439672
Start listening today wherever you get your podcasts.

476
00:30:03,611.644425 --> 00:30:08,101.6441961
All right, we've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.

477
00:30:08,451.6445776 --> 00:30:11,701.6445776
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

478
00:30:11,821.6444631 --> 00:30:15,701.6445776
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,

479
00:30:15,701.6445776 --> 00:30:18,181.6441198
and remember that's band with two Ns.

480
00:30:18,511.6440435 --> 00:30:29,421.6438909
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

481
00:30:29,421.6438909 --> 00:30:30,651.6453405
I think you'll like it.

482
00:30:30,861.644425 --> 00:30:32,641.6451116
Yes, little quid pro quo.

483
00:30:33,331.6437383 --> 00:30:38,351.6461034
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

484
00:30:38,821.6435094 --> 00:30:43,391.6432043
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.

485
00:30:43,621.6427465 --> 00:30:48,241.6454931
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.

486
00:30:48,831.6456457 --> 00:30:50,311.6451879
And resist when it matters.