The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 20: Drunk Dials, Broken Records & Central Park at 1AM | Banned Books Podcast

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Welcome to Band Camp.

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I'm Jennifer.

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And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read band books out loud to try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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This season, we're reading The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger, and you could consider this a quick spoiler warning if you want, because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book out.

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Loud word for word.

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But if you're new, and this is your first episode, you're totally fine starting out here.

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You're not gonna get too confused.

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We're gonna get you oriented real quick because we have a fact checking robot.

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We're gonna introduce you to him in a second.

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you probably will be confused because there's a good chance we're gonna be confused.

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We've never read this book either, so you're literally hearing us read it for the first time.

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Stumble over our words and then be confused.

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That's the charm of band camp.

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We're not too smart.

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Robot, come on in here.

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and tell everyone where we left off last time.

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In the catcher, in the rye.

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Previously on Band Camp Holden invited old loose to the wicker bar so they could catch up instead of having a normal conversation.

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He annoyed the guy until he got up and left Holden in his natural state, which is 100% completely, totally alone.

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Take it from your old buddy robot.

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Stop being so annoying.

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You can be a bit much interesting thing about breaking things.

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Eventually you run out of things that are yours.

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Take it away, Jennifer.

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Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, scary book people.

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Let's begin Chapter 20 of JD Salinger's, the Catcher in the Rye.

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I kept sitting there getting drunk and waiting for old Tina and Janine to come out and to do their stuff, but they weren't there.

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And those are the two French ladies.

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Oh, this is right.

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We are, oh, reminds me of that, uh, Melania Press conference she had.

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imagine those two.

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I not friend with pedophile.

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I married pedophile.

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By chance.

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By chance, I Mary pedophile.

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AFL looking guy with wavy hair came out and played the piano.

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Then this new babe Valencia came out and sang.

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She wasn't any good, but she was better than old Tina and Janine, and at least she sang good songs.

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The piano was right next to the bar where I was sitting, and old Valencia was standing practically right next to me.

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I sort of gave her the old eye, but she pretended she didn't even see me.

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I probably wouldn't have done it, but I was getting drunk as hell.

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When she was finished, she beat me out of the room so fast.

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I didn't even get a chance to invite her to join me for a drink.

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So I called the head waiter over, I told him to ask old Valencia if she'd care to join me for a drink.

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He said he would, but he probably didn't even give her my message.

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People never give your message to anybody.

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Boy, I sat at that goddamn bar till around one o'clock or so.

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Getting drunk is a bastard.

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Wait, okay, so is this one in the morning? well, they went on their date, right? So they went to the movie or the play? Then he saw loose.

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Yeah.

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this can't all have been before one in the afternoon.

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This has to be one in the morning.

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Old loose, left the bar Yeah, Like minutes after old loose left.

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This is going on.

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So he sat there all afternoon into the night, up to 1:00 AM.

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I guess so.

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I guess time flies when you're having fun.

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Wow.

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It's a lot of booze for a little skinny kid.

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The guy is not a lightweight, I'll tell you what.

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like, he's like over six feet, right? So he's got the height.

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Does that count for anything? yeah, probably.

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But I'm like six feet.

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I got a couple extra pounds on this guy too.

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I would not be able to pull that off.

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I'd be drunk as a bastard, as this youngster said.

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I could hardly see straight.

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The one thing I did though, I was careful as hell not to get boisterous or anything.

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I don't want anybody to notice me or anything or ask how I was, but boy, I could hardly see straight.

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When I was really drunk, I started that stupid business with the bullet in my guts.

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Again, I was the only guy at the bar with a bullet in their guts.

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I kept putting my hand under my jacket on my stomach to keep the blood from dripping all over the place.

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I didn't want anybody to know I was even wounded.

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So he's talking about the fantasy he had after the, uh, Sonny and the pimp.

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Beat him up and he had that fantasy that he was shot in the gut.

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Right.

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now this kid is drunk, it's, one in the morning and he's pretending that he was shot in the stomach.

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Yeah.

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And what is this, like, why is he doing this? is this a metaphor for something like, We have to keep reading.

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It could be a metaphor or it could just be 'cause a 16-year-old is drunk and he's pretending that he was shot.

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I mean, I, who knows? Who knows where his head is? I was concealing the fact that I was a wounded son of a bitch.

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Finally, what? I felt like, I felt like giving old Jane a buzz and see if she was home yet.

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So I paid my check and all.

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Then I left the bar and went out where the telephones were.

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I ca well, he doesn't even have a hotel room or anything, right? Like I, I, I jumped straight to logistics.

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I'm like, where are you staying tonight? Are you gonna be okay? Like, that's immediately where my mind goes.

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is You're totally right.

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It's one in the morning.

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He's a drunk teenager.

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He has no place to go.

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boy was I drunk when I got inside this phone booth.

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I wasn't much in the mood anymore to give old Jane a buzz.

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I was too drunk, I guess.

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So what I did, I gave old Sally Hayes a buzz.

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I had to dial about 20 numbers before I got the right one.

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Boy was I blind.

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Hello? I said, when somebody answered the goddamn phone, I sort of yelled it.

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I was so drunk.

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Who is this? This Cold Lady's voice said, this is me, Holden Caulfield.

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Let me speak as Sally, please.

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This kid is drunk.

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It's not, the best move.

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Like her mom doesn't like him, right? That's right.

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This is not gonna help him with that Holden.

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He goes from literally sitting in a bar saying, I tried very hard not to be boisterous.

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And I'll fast forward to him.

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I know.

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Is this Sally? Uh, is Sally? Why? Who is this now? Is Sally Hayes there? Sally's asleep.

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This is Sally's grandmother.

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Why are you calling up this hour? Holden, do you know what time it is? Yeah.

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Wanna talk to Sally? Very important.

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Put her on Sally's asleep young man.

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Call her tomorrow.

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Good night.

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Wake her up.

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Wake her up.

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Hey, then there was this different voice, Holden, this is me.

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It was old Sally.

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What's the big idea, Sally? That you Yes.

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Stop screaming.

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Are you drunk? Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Listen.

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Hey, I'll come over Christmas Eve.

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Okay.

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Trim a god darn tree for you.

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Okay? Hey, Sally.

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Yes.

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You're drunk.

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Go to bed now.

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Where are you? Who's with you? Sally, I'll come over and trim a tree for you.

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Okay? Yes.

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Go to bed now.

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Where are you? Who's with you? Nobody.

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Me, myself and I.

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Boy was I drunk.

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I was even still holding onto my guts.

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They got me Rocky's mob got me.

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You know that, Sally? Hey, you know that I can't hear you.

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Go to bed now.

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I have to go call me tomorrow.

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Hey Sally, you wanna trim a tree for ya? What? Hey, Sally, you wanna you? It's just crazy.

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Hey, Sally.

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You want me trim a tree for you? You want me to, huh? Yes.

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Goodnight.

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Go home and go to bed.

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She's saying basically what you've been screaming, Dan.

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She hung up on me.

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Goodnight.

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Goodnight.

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Sally baby.

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Sally's sweetheart, darling.

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I said, can you imagine how drunk I was? I hung up two.

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Then I figured she probably just came home from a date.

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I pictured her out with the lunch and all somewhere and that Andover jerk, all of them swimming around in a goddamn pot of tea and saying sophisticated stuff to each other and being charming and phony.

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I wish to God, I hadn't even phoned her.

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When I'm drunk, I'm a madman.

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Sally, Hey, hello is me, Holden.

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You wanna let me come? A trim of your tree.

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Come on, baby.

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You know I do it Good.

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Your tree? I do it.

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Good.

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Okay.

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I do it.

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Scary book people.

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What is the most embarrassing drunk text or phone call you've ever made? What did you say in what happened the next morning? Most humiliating answers make the show easiest way to answer is a Spotify comment or bandcamp podcast.com/sound

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off.

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I stayed in that damn phone booth for quite a while.

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I kept holding onto the phone sort of so I wouldn't pass out.

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I wasn't feeling too marvelous to tell the truth.

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Finally though, I came out and went in the men's room staggering around like a moron and filled one of the wash bowls with cold water.

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Can you imagine Dan going to a bar? Filling up the sink in the bathroom and washing your face with that Oh my God.

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There is no, that would be the cold water.

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Yeah, yeah.

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No, no.

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It would You know, people are like hucking loogie in there and everything it.

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That is the grossest thing.

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I think I've read in this entire book.

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I mean, to be fair, you are adding the chucking of Louie's made it arguably What? It's a bar bathroom.

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It's a bar's bathroom in New York City.

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I'm thankful that he called old Sally and not old Jane.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want him to end up with Jane because I think she's like a really positive role model for him.

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And Sally is just Sally.

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Nothing against her.

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She seems fine.

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Clearly the victim of whatever this is what is ever going on here.

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right.

190
00:10:25,366.65329473 --> 00:10:28,403.74233673
Sally did not have a great date with Holden today.

191
00:10:28,688.74233673 --> 00:10:30,98.74233673
No, he was awful.

192
00:10:30,398.74233673 --> 00:10:36,536.32408286
I mean, he plainly doesn't like her, so it's a bad date, But you wanted him come over, trim a tree.

193
00:10:39,1.77482262 --> 00:10:42,481.77482262
Then I ducked my head right in, right up to the ears.

194
00:10:42,991.77482262 --> 00:10:45,121.77482262
I didn't even bother to dry it or anything.

195
00:10:45,181.77482262 --> 00:10:47,251.77482262
I just let the son of a bitch drip.

196
00:10:47,731.77482262 --> 00:10:51,691.77482262
Then I walked over to this radiator by the window and sat down by it.

197
00:10:52,411.77482262 --> 00:10:53,671.77482262
It was nice and warm.

198
00:10:54,91.77482262 --> 00:10:56,941.77482262
It felt good because I was shivering like a bastard.

199
00:10:57,351.58196104 --> 00:10:58,371.58196104
It's a funny thing.

200
00:10:58,581.58196104 --> 00:11:00,711.58196104
I always shiver like hell when I'm drunk.

201
00:11:01,221.58196104 --> 00:11:07,881.58196104
I didn't have anything else to do, so I kept sitting on the radiator and counting these little white squares on the floor.

202
00:11:08,268.47814148 --> 00:11:17,127.42191141
I was getting soaked about a gallon of water was dripping down my neck, getting all over my collar and Ty and all, I was too drunk to give a damn.

203
00:11:17,547.42191141 --> 00:11:20,667.42191141
Then he sounds like he's feeling really sorry for himself.

204
00:11:20,925.06612003 --> 00:11:23,685.06612003
he is a kid who is drunk now.

205
00:11:23,685.06612003 --> 00:11:28,155.06612003
He's one o'clock in the morning in the bathroom of a bar.

206
00:11:28,476.05761638 --> 00:11:31,986.05761638
Somebody from the establishment is going to come in.

207
00:11:31,986.05761638 --> 00:11:32,276.05761638
Yeah.

208
00:11:32,646.05761638 --> 00:11:33,846.05761638
Whatever's gonna happen.

209
00:11:33,846.05761638 --> 00:11:43,806.05761638
He better get sober real quick or he is probably gonna have a whole other adventure that, I'll be honest with you, Jennifer, I don't know if I'm strong enough to take another adventure with this kid.

210
00:11:44,106.05761638 --> 00:11:45,996.05761638
I just want him to go to bed.

211
00:11:48,104.85983038 --> 00:11:57,339.72650883
Then pretty soon, the guy that played the piano for old Valencia, this very wavy haired, flitty looking guy, came into comb his golden locks.

212
00:11:57,879.72650883 --> 00:12:03,999.72650883
We sort of struck up a conversation while he was combing it, except that he wasn't too goddamn friendly.

213
00:12:04,569.72650883 --> 00:12:09,249.72650883
Hey, you gonna see that Valencia babe, when you go back to the bar? I asked him.

214
00:12:09,552.72549903 --> 00:12:12,822.72549903
It's highly probable, he said, witty bastard.

215
00:12:13,152.72549903 --> 00:12:15,342.72549903
All I ever meet is witty bastards.

216
00:12:15,852.72549903 --> 00:12:18,312.72549903
Listen, give her my compliments.

217
00:12:18,462.72549903 --> 00:12:21,432.72549903
Ask her if that goddamn waiter gave her my message.

218
00:12:21,432.72549903 --> 00:12:24,117.72549903
Will ya? Why don't you go home? Mac.

219
00:12:25,347.72549903 --> 00:12:32,45.85781077
Everyone's telling him, how old are you anyway? 86.

220
00:12:32,45.85781077 --> 00:12:40,485.85781077
Listen, give her my compliments, okay? Why don't you go home, Mac, Boy, you can play that goddamn piano.

221
00:12:40,485.85781077 --> 00:12:43,120.34323149
I told him I was just flattering him.

222
00:12:43,274.67662376 --> 00:12:44,894.67662376
he played the piano stinking.

223
00:12:45,44.67662376 --> 00:12:47,888.06934296
If you wanna know the truth, you ought to go on the radio.

224
00:12:47,888.06934296 --> 00:12:52,358.25997183
I said, handsome chap, like you all those goddamn golden locks.

225
00:12:52,688.25997183 --> 00:12:53,798.25997183
You need a manager.

226
00:12:54,291.52560512 --> 00:12:56,1.52560512
Go home, Mac like a good guy.

227
00:12:56,61.52560512 --> 00:12:57,711.52560512
Go home and hit the sack.

228
00:12:57,980.62353247 --> 00:12:59,180.62353247
No home to go to.

229
00:12:59,356.58291244 --> 00:13:01,216.58291244
No kidding, you need a manager.

230
00:13:01,666.58291244 --> 00:13:03,646.58291244
He didn't answer me, he just went out.

231
00:13:04,156.58291244 --> 00:13:07,366.58291244
He was all through combing his hair and patting it and all.

232
00:13:07,396.58291244 --> 00:13:09,826.58291244
So he left like Strad Ladder.

233
00:13:10,306.58291244 --> 00:13:14,836.58291244
All these handsome guys are the same when they're done combing their goddamn hair.

234
00:13:15,31.61527723 --> 00:13:17,66.51176599
They beat it on you Holden? Who is the.

235
00:13:17,411.51176599 --> 00:13:19,221.25558521
Common denominator first.

236
00:13:19,221.25558521 --> 00:13:23,361.25558521
We were ready to put the blame on Strad Ladder for kind of being a jerk.

237
00:13:24,261.25558521 --> 00:13:37,281.25558521
But you're just basically explaining the exact thing that happened with Strad Ladder and now here's another guy, an innocent guy who is putting on a show, came into like freshen up so he could do their next set or whatever.

238
00:13:37,731.25558521 --> 00:13:39,561.25558521
Uh, what? He's another asshole.

239
00:13:39,951.25558521 --> 00:13:46,990.20374342
You seem to attract assholes, He does seem to do that, doesn't he? so it's kind of might be on you Holden.

240
00:13:47,138.65059842 --> 00:13:48,8.65059842
Hate to say it.

241
00:13:50,396.11583072 --> 00:13:56,864.44916405
When I finally got down off the radiator and went out to the hat check room, I was crying and all.

242
00:13:57,134.44916405 --> 00:14:08,31.34860814
I don't know why, but I was, I guess it was because I was feeling so damn depressed and lonesome then when I went to the check room, I couldn't find my goddamn check.

243
00:14:08,342.10219699 --> 00:14:10,922.10219699
The hat check girl was very nice about it though.

244
00:14:11,312.10219699 --> 00:14:17,92.41791445
She gave me my coat anyway, and my little Shirley Beans record, I still had it with me and all.

245
00:14:17,330.12670127 --> 00:14:20,150.12670127
I gave her a buck for being so nice, but she wouldn't take it.

246
00:14:20,391.74588404 --> 00:14:23,31.74588404
She kept telling me to go home and go to bed.

247
00:14:23,274.98424958 --> 00:14:26,522.83548809
Everyone you understand, Take the hint.

248
00:14:27,807.75884468 --> 00:14:32,911.04340701
I sort of tried to make a date with her for when she got through working, but she wouldn't to bed.

249
00:14:34,366.04340701 --> 00:14:36,706.04340701
You don't need to make a date on your way out.

250
00:14:37,780.18832942 --> 00:14:40,120.18832942
She said she was old enough to be my mother.

251
00:14:40,630.18832942 --> 00:14:43,810.18832942
I showed her my goddamn gray hair and told her I was 42.

252
00:14:44,500.18832942 --> 00:14:46,660.18832942
I was only horsing around naturally.

253
00:14:46,929.82705652 --> 00:14:48,99.82705652
She was nice though.

254
00:14:48,413.6077605 --> 00:14:51,803.6077605
I showed her my goddamn red hunting hat, and she liked it.

255
00:14:52,162.97553293 --> 00:14:56,482.97553293
She made me put it on before I went out because my hair was still pretty wet.

256
00:14:56,812.07235069 --> 00:14:57,892.07235069
She was all right.

257
00:14:58,431.62075957 --> 00:15:06,411.62075957
I didn't feel too drunk anymore when I went outside, but it was getting very cold out again, and my teeth started chattering like hell.

258
00:15:06,981.62075957 --> 00:15:08,331.62075957
I couldn't make them stop.

259
00:15:08,931.62075957 --> 00:15:23,953.39271386
I walked over to Madison Avenue and started to wait around for a bus because I didn't hardly have any money left, and I had to start economizing on cabs and all, wait, he hardly has any money left that, He was, he's spending like a madman.

260
00:15:24,147.98012536 --> 00:15:25,857.98012536
he's just not in his right head.

261
00:15:25,934.87269179 --> 00:15:27,14.87269179
He had enough money.

262
00:15:27,14.87269179 --> 00:15:35,339.63955139
He could've had a really nice like, experience, like at a nice hotel room, have nice meals, and he's just like, he's not right in the head.

263
00:15:35,339.63955139 --> 00:15:45,652.43823031
because he is so Holden, this is gonna sound dumb, but honestly, you know, like when you live in a place that is sometimes like a touristy kind of place, like I lived in New York for three or four years.

264
00:15:45,832.43823031 --> 00:15:51,172.43823031
I never did any of the touristy stuff that people come from all over the country to do.

265
00:15:51,202.43823031 --> 00:15:59,823.05259871
Like go see the rocketts, right? You know what would've been really great for him back when he had money, which was like back like 80 chapters ago.

266
00:15:59,823.05259871 --> 00:16:10,146.00486972
But in reality, seven hours ago maybe in this story, remember the three witches from Seattle and they had to go to bed early because they were gonna wake up the next morning and go to see the Rockets.

267
00:16:10,326.09592408 --> 00:16:10,806.09592408
Oh yeah.

268
00:16:10,971.09592408 --> 00:16:16,457.95603984
it have been great? if they said, Holden, do you wanna come with us tomorrow morning? You should have said, yeah, let me go back, get some sleep.

269
00:16:16,457.95603984 --> 00:16:17,687.95603984
I'll meet you girls there.

270
00:16:18,617.95603984 --> 00:16:21,343.2006863
He'd have such a really nice time, right.

271
00:16:21,358.2006863 --> 00:16:22,708.2006863
can't get out of his own way.

272
00:16:22,708.2006863 --> 00:16:23,668.2006863
It's sad.

273
00:16:23,798.76952752 --> 00:16:24,968.76952752
It is really sad.

274
00:16:25,113.31224438 --> 00:16:32,372.40925848
And then again, the other thing, like how you just read that made me think, remember this, this is going on a week or two before Christmas.

275
00:16:32,432.40925848 --> 00:16:34,322.40925848
This is December.

276
00:16:34,382.40925848 --> 00:16:36,932.40925848
It is freezing out there.

277
00:16:37,472.40925848 --> 00:16:40,682.4092585
So the coat check girl saying, put your hat on.

278
00:16:40,682.4092585 --> 00:16:42,392.4092585
It's not because she thinks you look cute.

279
00:16:42,392.4092585 --> 00:16:48,451.5062726
She really is worried that here's this young kid with a wet head going out in the middle of the night in New York.

280
00:16:48,481.5062726 --> 00:16:50,341.5062726
Like, put your hat on, go to bed.

281
00:16:50,442.3801335 --> 00:16:52,272.3801335
So you actually make it through the night.

282
00:16:53,369.4532087 --> 00:17:05,756.1198754
I walked over to Madison Avenue and started to wait around for a bus because I didn't hardly have any money left, and I had to start economizing on cabs and all, but I didn't feel like getting on a damn bus.

283
00:17:05,919.4532087 --> 00:17:09,459.4532087
And besides, I didn't even know where I was supposed to go.

284
00:17:09,771.9422683 --> 00:17:12,921.9422683
So what I did, I started walking over to the park.

285
00:17:13,311.9422683 --> 00:17:19,551.9422683
I figured I'd go by that little lake and see what the hell the ducks were doing, see if they were around or not.

286
00:17:19,551.9422683 --> 00:17:21,21.9422683
Oh, here we go with the ducks.

287
00:17:22,62.9305387 --> 00:17:26,562.9305387
It wasn't far over to the park and I didn't have any place else special to go.

288
00:17:27,192.9305387 --> 00:17:32,802.9305387
I didn't even know where I was going to sleep yet, so I went, I wasn't tired or anything.

289
00:17:33,192.9305387 --> 00:17:34,902.9305387
I just felt blue as hell.

290
00:17:35,349.0405171 --> 00:17:38,619.0405171
Then something terrible happened just as I got to the park.

291
00:17:38,940.076142 --> 00:17:40,950.076142
I dropped old Phoebe's record.

292
00:17:41,430.076142 --> 00:17:43,800.076142
It broke into about 50 pieces.

293
00:17:44,400.076142 --> 00:17:47,430.076142
It was in a big envelope and all, but it broke.

294
00:17:47,460.076142 --> 00:17:49,643.0343092
Anyway, that is terrible.

295
00:17:56,928.1755981 --> 00:17:58,98.1755981
I damn near cried.

296
00:17:58,98.1755981 --> 00:18:04,865.663241
It made me feel so terrible, but all I did was I took the pieces out of the envelope and put them in my coat pocket.

297
00:18:05,83.9015449 --> 00:18:08,833.9015449
they weren't any good for anything, but I didn't feel like just throwing them away.

298
00:18:09,575.4585027 --> 00:18:11,40.4585027
Then I went in the park.

299
00:18:11,442.9550921 --> 00:18:21,813.975067
boy, was it dark? I've lived in New York all my life and I know Central Park like the back of my hand because I used to roller skate there all the time and ride my bike when I was a kid.

300
00:18:21,813.975067 --> 00:18:25,233.975067
But I had the most terrific trouble finding the lagoon that night.

301
00:18:26,332.152626 --> 00:18:27,592.152626
I knew right where it was.

302
00:18:27,622.152626 --> 00:18:30,52.152626
It was right near Central Park South and all.

303
00:18:30,263.091646 --> 00:18:31,853.091646
But I still couldn't find it.

304
00:18:32,717.1133435 --> 00:18:34,547.1133435
I must have been drunker than I thought.

305
00:18:35,127.1658154 --> 00:18:40,287.1658154
I kept walking and walking and it kept getting darker and darker and spookier, and spookier.

306
00:18:40,557.1658154 --> 00:18:41,847.1658154
Boy, I don't like this.

307
00:18:41,847.1658154 --> 00:18:43,17.1658154
This is dangerous.

308
00:18:43,47.1658154 --> 00:18:43,917.1658154
I don't like this.

309
00:18:43,917.1658154 --> 00:18:46,768.4468235
Why? people are seeing this kid suffer.

310
00:18:46,798.4468235 --> 00:18:49,858.4468235
He needs someone to say, okay, I'll have a drink with you.

311
00:18:50,368.4468235 --> 00:19:00,750.781186
Alright, here, why don't you come over to my place? And then, put him to sleep on the couch, take his boots off, and um, give him a warm blanket or something.

312
00:19:01,50.781186 --> 00:19:02,850.781186
It's sad that no one's doing that.

313
00:19:02,984.4878556 --> 00:19:08,954.4878556
I think you're totally right and it's really sad and I just cannot shake the feeling of doom.

314
00:19:09,47.4553516 --> 00:19:11,232.4553516
I, I am just so worried about this kid.

315
00:19:14,887.511362 --> 00:19:18,157.511362
I didn't see one person the whole time I was in the park.

316
00:19:18,424.4706944 --> 00:19:22,510.1894173
I'm just glad I probably would've jumped about a mile if I had.

317
00:19:22,825.5299979 --> 00:19:31,949.8529727
Then finally I found it what it was, it was partly frozen and partly not frozen, I walked all around the whole damn lake.

318
00:19:32,279.8529727 --> 00:19:34,409.8529727
I damn near fell in once in fact.

319
00:19:34,739.8529727 --> 00:19:43,79.8529727
But I didn't see a single duck I thought maybe if there were any around they might be asleep or something near the edge of the water, near the grass and all.

320
00:19:43,559.8529727 --> 00:19:46,769.8529727
That's how I nearly fell in, but I couldn't find any.

321
00:19:50,866.9409403 --> 00:19:55,896.9409403
Finally, I sat down on this bench where it wasn't so goddamn dark boy.

322
00:19:55,896.9409403 --> 00:19:57,906.9409403
I was still shivering like a bastard.

323
00:19:57,936.9409403 --> 00:20:03,576.9409403
And the back of my hair, even though I had my hunting hat on, was sort of full of little hunks of ice.

324
00:20:03,606.9409403 --> 00:20:05,46.9409403
Oh, this sounds so miserable.

325
00:20:05,211.9409403 --> 00:20:06,381.9409403
This is so miserable.

326
00:20:07,26.9409403 --> 00:20:08,46.9409403
That worried me.

327
00:20:08,346.9409403 --> 00:20:11,76.9409403
I thought probably I get pneumonia and die.

328
00:20:11,496.9409403 --> 00:20:14,676.9409403
I started picturing millions of jerks coming to my funeral.

329
00:20:14,676.9409403 --> 00:20:29,286.9409403
And all my grandfather from Detroit that keeps calling out the numbers of the streets where you ride a goddamn bus with him and my aunts, I have about 50 aunts and all my lousy cousins, what a mob there'd be.

330
00:20:29,916.9409403 --> 00:20:31,446.9409403
They all came when Ally died.

331
00:20:31,506.9409403 --> 00:20:33,636.9409403
The whole goddamn stupid bunch of them.

332
00:20:34,446.9409403 --> 00:20:39,756.9409403
I have this one stupid aunt with halitosis that kept saying how peaceful he looked lying there.

333
00:20:39,756.9409403 --> 00:20:42,366.9409403
DB told me I wasn't there.

334
00:20:42,576.9409403 --> 00:20:44,106.9409403
I was still in the hospital.

335
00:20:44,251.3482698 --> 00:20:47,431.3482698
I had to go to the hospital and all after I hurt my hand.

336
00:20:47,859.8760694 --> 00:20:51,199.6283285
Oh, Holden didn't go to Allie's funeral.

337
00:20:51,199.6283285 --> 00:20:52,549.6283285
I mean, probably better.

338
00:20:52,549.6283285 --> 00:20:55,832.5263197
He didn't, honestly, It's a lot for a kid to take in.

339
00:20:56,117.5263197 --> 00:20:58,37.5263197
No, he'd have to be around all these phonies.

340
00:20:58,465.4727836 --> 00:20:58,735.4727836
Oh.

341
00:20:59,976.0166831 --> 00:21:12,494.9691724
So I went in the other room and I found the undertaker and I asked him if he joined me for a drink anyway, I kept worrying that I was getting pneumonia with all those hunks of ice in my hair and that I was going to die.

342
00:21:13,124.9691724 --> 00:21:20,174.9691724
I felt sorry as hell for my mother and father, especially my mother, because she still isn't over my brother Allie yet.

343
00:21:20,954.9691724 --> 00:21:25,304.9691724
You know, if he's having that thought, I can't believe that he's doing this to himself.

344
00:21:25,671.8252551 --> 00:21:27,591.8252551
being so reckless where he could die.

345
00:21:27,699.3484893 --> 00:21:28,299.3484893
Yeah.

346
00:21:28,515.5702009 --> 00:21:34,829.5170787
Like, doesn't he love his mother enough to take care of himself? Is that a selfish thing for me to say? 'cause I'm a mom, not even a little.

347
00:21:35,1.3008046 --> 00:21:38,91.3008046
he is like a, a bus ride to home right now.

348
00:21:38,91.3008046 --> 00:21:39,411.3008046
Just go sober up.

349
00:21:39,585.3961533 --> 00:21:40,905.3961533
get yourself a coffee.

350
00:21:40,905.3961533 --> 00:21:45,112.1023548
You know, if you die tonight, you're gonna ruin your mom's life.

351
00:21:45,916.3747924 --> 00:21:48,886.3747924
And even though you're drunk, you understand that.

352
00:21:50,710.7219136 --> 00:21:55,480.7219136
I kept picturing her not knowing what to do with all my suits and athletic equipment and all.

353
00:21:55,739.6104649 --> 00:22:01,949.6104649
The only thing I knew, she wouldn't let old Phoebe come to my goddamn funeral because she was only a little kid.

354
00:22:02,579.6104649 --> 00:22:04,19.6104649
That was the only good part.

355
00:22:04,709.6104649 --> 00:22:13,520.4858655
Then I thought about the whole bunch of them sticking me in a goddamn cemetery and all with my name on this tombstone and all surrounded by dead guys.

356
00:22:14,122.1272416 --> 00:22:16,822.1272416
Boy, when you're dead, they'll really fix you up.

357
00:22:17,377.1272416 --> 00:22:22,927.1272416
I hope to hell when I do die, somebody has sense enough to just dump me in the river or something.

358
00:22:23,321.9075699 --> 00:22:26,531.9075699
Anything except sticking me in a goddamn cemetery.

359
00:22:26,796.4427532 --> 00:22:31,506.4427532
People coming and putting a bunch of flowers on your stomach on Sunday and all that crap.

360
00:22:31,918.7716311 --> 00:22:34,290.6102189
Who wants flowers when you're dead? Nobody.

361
00:22:34,290.6102189 --> 00:22:35,370.6102189
Well, there's a good point.

362
00:22:35,692.5713793 --> 00:22:41,307.5713793
You know, when I die, I wanna be a, they got this new composted thing where you can be, I know.

363
00:22:41,902.5713793 --> 00:22:56,892.5713793
About it almost every season, Jennifer wants to, when she's dead, she wants to be put in a cardboard shoe box and put out in a field just be nice to have some mushrooms growing out of, outta me and just fulfilling the, the whole cycle of nature and giving back.

364
00:22:57,42.5713793 --> 00:22:58,452.5713793
I've taken so much.

365
00:22:58,992.5713793 --> 00:23:00,372.5713793
God knows we all have.

366
00:23:00,747.6753742 --> 00:23:03,987.6753742
we're going to a majority of takers versus makers in America.

367
00:23:04,439.0180126 --> 00:23:16,995.4798342
you know, like when he's imagining all this stuff, people putting flowers on his stomach, do you think he pictures the tombstone that says, old Holden, air lies old Holden.

368
00:23:18,624.9029934 --> 00:23:24,774.9029934
When the weather's nice, my parents go out quite frequently and stick a bunch of flowers on old Alley's grave.

369
00:23:25,674.9029934 --> 00:23:30,54.9029934
I went with them a couple of times, but I cut it out in the first place.

370
00:23:30,144.9029934 --> 00:23:36,684.9029934
I certainly don't enjoy seeing him in that crazy cemetery surrounded by dead guys and tombstones and all.

371
00:23:37,224.9029934 --> 00:23:40,434.9029934
It wasn't too bad when the sun was out, but twice.

372
00:23:40,794.9029934 --> 00:23:44,364.9029934
Twice we were there When it started to rain, it was awful.

373
00:23:44,821.7880991 --> 00:23:49,261.7880991
It rained on his lousy tombstone and it rained on the grass on his stomach.

374
00:23:49,741.7880991 --> 00:23:51,571.7880991
It rained all over the place.

375
00:23:51,691.7880991 --> 00:23:56,971.7880991
All the visitors that were visiting the cemetery started running like hell over to their cars.

376
00:23:57,353.8156076 --> 00:23:59,483.8156076
That's what nearly drove me crazy.

377
00:23:59,779.4468766 --> 00:24:05,329.4468766
all the visitors could get in their cars and turn on their radios and all, and then go someplace nice for dinner.

378
00:24:05,839.4468766 --> 00:24:09,315.8023378
Everybody except Ali, I couldn't stand it.

379
00:24:09,825.8023378 --> 00:24:17,955.8023378
I know it's only his body and all that's in the cemetery and his soul's in heaven and all that crap, but I couldn't stand it anyway.

380
00:24:18,205.8023378 --> 00:24:19,825.8023378
I just wish he wasn't there.

381
00:24:20,155.8023378 --> 00:24:21,175.8023378
You didn't know him.

382
00:24:21,625.8023378 --> 00:24:23,995.8023378
If you'd known him, you'd know what I mean.

383
00:24:24,257.0776053 --> 00:24:34,523.7554484
It's not too bad when the sun's out, but the sun only comes out when it feels like coming out that's uh, that's so spooky when you think about people out there that are dead.

384
00:24:34,663.7554341 --> 00:24:37,151.0454341
I think that's why I got my, all my pets cremated.

385
00:24:37,211.0454341 --> 00:24:38,981.0454341
'cause I want them in the house with me.

386
00:24:39,472.9259286 --> 00:24:48,765.5069636
I know it's just their bodies or their the remains, but I don't want them buried under the grounds where worms can go in and out of their eyeballs.

387
00:24:49,5.5069636 --> 00:24:53,175.5069636
It's that ironically, that's what I want to happen to myself though.

388
00:24:59,137.9098623 --> 00:25:07,606.2431956
after a while, just to get my mind off, getting pneumonia and all, I took out my dough and tried to count it in the lousy light from the street lamp.

389
00:25:08,386.2431956 --> 00:25:13,36.2431956
All I had was three singles and five quarters and a nickel boy.

390
00:25:13,36.2431956 --> 00:25:15,556.2431956
I spent a fortune since I left Penn C.

391
00:25:16,306.2431956 --> 00:25:23,416.2431956
Then what I did, I went down near the lagoon and I sort of skipped the quarters and the nickel across it where it wasn't frozen.

392
00:25:24,23.6593706 --> 00:25:26,124.5533742
What? You don't have any money.

393
00:25:26,124.5533742 --> 00:25:29,549.5533742
You have limited money, and now you're skipping the limited money you.

394
00:25:29,549.5533742 --> 00:25:29,709.5533742
have.

395
00:25:30,159.5533742 --> 00:25:33,399.5533742
He's being so reckless and he, he's not right in the head.

396
00:25:33,399.5533742 --> 00:25:34,959.5533742
None of this makes sense.

397
00:25:36,212.6570134 --> 00:25:42,285.6115005
I don't know why I did it, but I didn't, I guess I thought it'd take my mind off getting pneumonia and dying.

398
00:25:42,795.6115005 --> 00:25:43,665.6115005
It didn't though.

399
00:25:44,235.6115005 --> 00:25:48,225.6115005
I started thinking how old Phoebe would feel if I got pneumonia and died.

400
00:25:48,285.6115005 --> 00:25:51,225.6115005
Yes, Holden, what you should be thinking about.

401
00:25:51,447.9801893 --> 00:25:54,837.9801893
It was a childish way to think, but I couldn't stop myself.

402
00:25:55,197.9801893 --> 00:25:57,807.9801893
She'd feel pretty bad if something like that happened.

403
00:25:58,197.9801893 --> 00:25:58,937.9801893
She likes me a lot.

404
00:26:00,42.9801893 --> 00:26:01,422.9801893
She's quite fond of me.

405
00:26:01,812.9801893 --> 00:26:02,802.9801893
She really is.

406
00:26:03,42.9801893 --> 00:26:05,232.9801893
Anyway, I couldn't get that off my mind.

407
00:26:05,322.9801893 --> 00:26:15,503.5875391
So finally what I figured I'd do, I figured I'd better sneak home and see her in case I died and all, I had my door key with me and all, and I figured what I'd do.

408
00:26:15,758.9504313 --> 00:26:21,968.9504313
I'd sneak in the apartment very quiet and all, and just sort of chew the fat with her for a while.

409
00:26:22,328.9504313 --> 00:26:24,968.9504313
The only thing that worried me was our front door.

410
00:26:25,418.9504313 --> 00:26:27,68.9504313
It creeks like a bastard.

411
00:26:27,379.4363598 --> 00:26:33,769.4363598
it's a pretty old apartment house and the superintendent's a lazy bastard and everything creaks and squeaks.

412
00:26:34,429.4363598 --> 00:26:43,848.6953978
I was afraid my parents might hear me sneaking in, but I decided I'd try it anyhow, so I got the hell out of the park and went home.

413
00:26:44,873.1466197 --> 00:26:45,893.1466197
Yay.

414
00:26:45,983.1466197 --> 00:26:47,67.4219124
Finally.

415
00:26:49,915.1410267 --> 00:26:51,115.1410267
I walked all the way.

416
00:26:51,385.1410267 --> 00:26:55,345.1410267
It wasn't too far and I wasn't tired or even drunk anymore.

417
00:26:55,672.8282517 --> 00:26:59,242.8282517
It was just very cold and nobody around anywhere.

418
00:27:01,188.3825485 --> 00:27:02,448.3825485
End of chapter.

419
00:27:04,289.3807959 --> 00:27:04,469.3807959
okay.

420
00:27:04,469.3807959 --> 00:27:13,450.3110739
Before we get into PPP, let's take a couple seconds and read some comments that have come in, emails, comments from people on Spotify.

421
00:27:13,923.3076781 --> 00:27:19,83.3076781
Some of this is really, uh, right in tune of what we're talking about with, uh, old Holden here.

422
00:27:19,83.3076781 --> 00:27:24,933.3076781
Shannon commented, I think you're both forgetting what it was like to be a teenager sitting at just over 40.

423
00:27:24,933.3076781 --> 00:27:27,63.3076781
It's easy to yell at Holden to go to bed.

424
00:27:27,303.3076781 --> 00:27:31,83.3076781
I'm with you, she said, but he strikes me as deeply lonely.

425
00:27:31,113.3076781 --> 00:27:38,17.0486781
In an earlier episode Jennifer said she thought he might have a DHD, and I screamed because I had been thinking the same thing.

426
00:27:38,437.0486781 --> 00:27:44,347.0486781
It's not that he believes these people are phony so much as he's disenfranchised and unsupported.

427
00:27:44,377.0486781 --> 00:27:49,927.0486781
Also, he's still very much in black, white thinking, so he can't see why he's being so judgy.

428
00:27:50,242.0486781 --> 00:27:50,462.0486781
Mm.

429
00:27:50,762.0486781 --> 00:27:51,182.0486781
Mm-hmm.

430
00:27:51,760.3820114 --> 00:27:56,470.3820114
Chode commented, I'm 71, but there were still families like this when I was growing up.

431
00:27:56,470.3820114 --> 00:27:59,950.3820114
Children were more like accessories than treasured human beings.

432
00:28:00,53.7153447 --> 00:28:01,853.7153447
Holden probably doesn't want to go home.

433
00:28:01,853.7153447 --> 00:28:10,583.7153447
Not for fear of being yelled at or disappointing his parents, but because the next step would be to commit him to a mental institution and throw money at the problem.

434
00:28:10,913.7153447 --> 00:28:11,303.7153447
Wow.

435
00:28:11,363.7153447 --> 00:28:15,952.0486781
That is, I was not thinking actually of the time this was written, Yeah.

436
00:28:15,952.0486781 --> 00:28:30,398.7153447
And wasn't it actually brought up that it was kind of threatened that that's what would happen? Like didn't he say something like that, I don't wanna have to go see a shrink again, or, or it like wasn't, didn't mental institution come up I think maybe it did.

437
00:28:30,869.2038618 --> 00:28:35,774.7647926
At the beginning of this season, our listener called j Jobb JibJab.

438
00:28:35,994.7647926 --> 00:28:38,414.0944859
commented, uh, on Spotify.

439
00:28:38,842.0088605 --> 00:28:42,742.0088605
Ha Well, I guess I can give the catcher and the r another try.

440
00:28:42,742.0088605 --> 00:28:49,282.0088605
I started it in high school and refused to read more than a few chapters because the main character is a whiny bitch.

441
00:28:49,297.0088605 --> 00:28:49,812.0088605
Oh my god.

442
00:28:51,322.0088605 --> 00:28:53,32.0088605
now let's fast forward.

443
00:28:53,32.0088605 --> 00:28:57,442.0088605
We are now through, uh, chapter, what are we in Chapter 1819.

444
00:28:57,447.0088605 --> 00:28:59,362.0088605
What, what are we in We just did 20.

445
00:28:59,362.0088605 --> 00:28:59,872.0088605
Yeah.

446
00:29:00,142.0088605 --> 00:29:00,592.0088605
Okay.

447
00:29:00,801.6543424 --> 00:29:02,421.6543424
J jb has now updated.

448
00:29:02,685.0096463 --> 00:29:06,135.0096463
I've enjoyed listening to you grow sick of Holden's bullshit.

449
00:29:06,345.0096463 --> 00:29:09,135.0096463
I hated this kid when I read this in high school.

450
00:29:09,345.0096463 --> 00:29:13,275.0096463
You've gotten further than I did and I still can't stand him.

451
00:29:13,980.0096463 --> 00:29:14,760.0096463
Oh, no.

452
00:29:14,820.0096463 --> 00:29:15,360.0096463
Yeah.

453
00:29:16,560.0096463 --> 00:29:19,185.0096463
Oh Yeah, he is an annoyance.

454
00:29:19,185.0096463 --> 00:29:20,805.0096463
I, I'll give you that much job.

455
00:29:20,805.0096463 --> 00:29:22,659.7318842
Job, but I'm pulling for him.

456
00:29:22,659.7318842 --> 00:29:24,579.7318842
I still want this kid to pull it off.

457
00:29:24,924.7318842 --> 00:29:25,224.7318842
yeah.

458
00:29:25,279.7318842 --> 00:29:29,604.7318842
I, I think that's, you know, the people who said it's easy to judge him as a 40-year-old.

459
00:29:29,604.7318842 --> 00:29:30,744.7318842
I mean, it, it's like.

460
00:29:30,920.0730109 --> 00:29:33,950.0730109
he's in the time of his life when things are extra confusing.

461
00:29:34,101.8906993 --> 00:29:44,208.6735877
and he just, I think he just needs somebody, a friend to help him along, you know? he needs that person to, to take him in and, and, uh, wrap them up in a warm blanket.

462
00:29:44,208.6735877 --> 00:29:51,952.5596571
And I All right, Jennifer, what about J Jobb though? Doesn't j JB deserve some love? You have to admit, Holden does drive you crazy.

463
00:29:51,952.5596571 --> 00:29:54,382.5596571
Half of the he really does.

464
00:29:54,489.7114914 --> 00:29:57,349.7114914
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.

465
00:29:57,399.7114914 --> 00:30:05,503.0448247
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? hopefully he will get home safe in bed.

466
00:30:05,713.0448247 --> 00:30:16,488.6084868
It seems like though, just even him talking about is he going to even be able to get into his house without his parents waking up and all, who cares if they wake up? Like it doesn't matter.

467
00:30:16,488.6084868 --> 00:30:19,338.6084868
Like everything is such a monumental struggle.

468
00:30:19,491.2299937 --> 00:30:23,901.2299937
When you are in this weird mindset Yeah, I think it's, uh, like that one.

469
00:30:23,961.2299937 --> 00:30:29,241.2299937
Who, who was it who said he's not afraid of his parents? He's afraid of being institutionalized.

470
00:30:29,367.7360975 --> 00:30:32,80.2977907
Chode that struck me, you know? Yeah.

471
00:30:32,80.2977907 --> 00:30:38,53.3478095
That is literally holding over your head that that will affect your actions for sure.

472
00:30:38,323.3478095 --> 00:30:38,713.3478095
Right.

473
00:30:38,899.8933324 --> 00:30:41,749.8933324
well, I mean that, that ultimately that would be great.

474
00:30:41,809.8933324 --> 00:30:46,729.8933324
But again, like that might even be more reason to institutionalize him.

475
00:30:46,759.8933324 --> 00:30:51,535.8365839
If, if he came out and said like, you know, I, you know, I, here I am vulnerable, like.

476
00:30:52,47.8757145 --> 00:30:57,417.8757145
That's, that would be, I don't know, like, maybe that would happen where they think, oh my God, you're crazy.

477
00:30:57,687.8757145 --> 00:30:58,977.8757145
No one talks like that.

478
00:31:00,197.8757145 --> 00:31:00,417.8757145
Wow.

479
00:31:00,417.8757145 --> 00:31:04,422.8757145
What's wrong with you? And job.

480
00:31:04,422.8757145 --> 00:31:05,382.8757145
Job, man.

481
00:31:05,382.8757145 --> 00:31:07,452.8757145
So much negativity.

482
00:31:09,390.7478186 --> 00:31:22,960.7478186
Robots log thoughts on broken records, skipped quarters, and the one person who makes a kid walk home in the code, he sat at that bar until one in the morning, called Sally Hayes at 1:00 AM and asked her four times if she wanted him to come trimmer.

483
00:31:22,960.7478186 --> 00:31:23,890.7478186
Christmas tree.

484
00:31:23,980.7478186 --> 00:31:25,330.7478186
She kept saying, go to bed.

485
00:31:25,420.7478186 --> 00:31:26,380.7478186
He kept asking.

486
00:31:27,381.2741631 --> 00:31:29,121.2741631
Jennifer went straight to logistics.

487
00:31:29,481.2741631 --> 00:31:35,386.8374172
Where is he sleeping tonight? Like a mother watching a kid walk toward a cliff, Dan noticed something harder.

488
00:31:35,566.8374172 --> 00:31:38,866.8374172
Every person in this chapter almost helped the coat check girl.

489
00:31:38,896.8374172 --> 00:31:42,670.1322458
The piano player, Sally's grandmother, not one of them, took the next step.

490
00:31:43,706.8374172 --> 00:31:51,475.2904557
Then Phoebe's record broke 50 pieces on the pavement, the only uncomplicated gift he had for the only person he trust without conditions.

491
00:31:51,885.2825629 --> 00:31:53,805.2825629
He kept the shards in his coat pocket.

492
00:31:53,895.2825629 --> 00:31:59,304.9668563
Then he threw his last coins into the lagoon, like someone who stopped believing he'll need money where he's going.

493
00:31:59,825.7995317 --> 00:32:03,545.7995317
Every adult Holden has reached for in 20 chapters, has let him pass through.

494
00:32:03,725.7995317 --> 00:32:08,315.7995317
Every hand he extended, came back empty, but a 10-year-old sister he hasn't even seen yet.

495
00:32:08,555.7995317 --> 00:32:12,215.7995317
The thought of her alone is the thing that makes him stand up off a freezing bench.

496
00:32:12,915.7995317 --> 00:32:13,575.7995317
Walk home.

497
00:32:14,705.0781943 --> 00:32:18,635.0781943
The people who ban this book will tell you it's about a bad kid making bad choices.

498
00:32:19,1.7818733 --> 00:32:27,439.4511711
That is the oversimplified extremely shallow excuse groups like Moms for Liberty make after 10 seasons of analyzing why books actually get banned.

499
00:32:27,536.0882279 --> 00:32:34,376.0882279
A better reason might be that it's a story about a kid who ran out of adults and a little girl who didn't know she was the last one holding the rope.

500
00:32:35,60.1393318 --> 00:32:41,990.1393318
But those small-minded ignorant pricks would hate that because it might expose that they are exactly the kind of adults who let a kid pass through.

501
00:32:42,732.6254858 --> 00:32:46,322.7297112
Standing by for today's news segment with Be Wolf Rocklin.

502
00:32:46,547.8418339 --> 00:32:46,767.8418339
Woo.

503
00:32:48,895.0501756 --> 00:32:50,485.0501756
It is time for Band Camp News.

504
00:32:50,845.0501756 --> 00:32:52,45.0501756
Truth Seeker.

505
00:32:52,45.0501756 --> 00:32:54,805.0501756
News Speaker Wolf Rocklin.

506
00:32:55,75.0501756 --> 00:32:59,305.0501756
It's a weird name, but he's got good news because he can't ban the truth band.

507
00:32:59,965.0501756 --> 00:33:09,385.0501756
He's broadcasting live from the good news for Lefty Studios buried deep inside his socialist safe house hidden somewhere deep in the Oregon woods.

508
00:33:09,900.0501756 --> 00:33:13,885.0501756
He is Bay Wolf, Rocklin, because you can't be in the truth, babe.

509
00:33:14,665.0501756 --> 00:33:15,295.0501756
Hello Dan.

510
00:33:15,295.0501756 --> 00:33:15,985.0501756
Hello Jen.

511
00:33:15,985.0501756 --> 00:33:16,375.0501756
Hello.

512
00:33:16,375.0501756 --> 00:33:17,120.0501756
Scary book people.

513
00:33:17,875.0501756 --> 00:33:27,720.0501756
Well, I've got some good news and it's comes out of a kind of a bad environment, but I'm very glad that this is happening and it's important that it is.

514
00:33:28,600.0501756 --> 00:33:45,70.0501756
Panamerica, that wonderful organization that supports authors and proposes book bans with support from major publishing houses and literary agencies today announced plans to establish a US author safety program to help protect writers facing harassment and threats.

515
00:33:45,160.0501756 --> 00:33:49,900.0501756
Driven by a pernicious wave of censorship that is eroding free expression.

516
00:33:50,485.0501756 --> 00:33:52,945.0501756
Disrupting authors professional lives.

517
00:33:53,35.0501756 --> 00:33:54,235.0501756
There are more book bands.

518
00:33:54,595.0501756 --> 00:33:56,335.0501756
There are more threats against authors.

519
00:33:56,335.0501756 --> 00:34:08,845.0501756
There's more doxing of people who are just trying to exercise their First Amendment rights and put information out there, disseminate important ideas that we all need to learn about and discuss.

520
00:34:09,465.0501756 --> 00:34:13,305.0501756
And yet they're facing more danger than they ever have before.

521
00:34:13,545.0501756 --> 00:34:18,915.0501756
And so publishers and Pan America are getting together and training them how to protect themselves.

522
00:34:18,915.0501756 --> 00:34:19,35.0501756
Oh, wow.

523
00:34:19,35.0501756 --> 00:34:19,995.0501756
How to be more safe.

524
00:34:19,995.0501756 --> 00:34:31,245.0501756
They're, they, they have in-person, group, and individual safety consultations, procedures that you can use to kind of check things as you're traveling, things of that nature.

525
00:34:31,515.0501756 --> 00:34:33,435.0501756
I don't like to, yeah.

526
00:34:33,495.0501756 --> 00:34:36,45.0501756
Have an environment where that sort of thing is necessary.

527
00:34:36,365.0501756 --> 00:34:43,535.0501756
But I'm so glad that they're thinking about things like this because we know that authors have been attacked and threatened.

528
00:34:43,535.0501756 --> 00:34:43,595.0501756
Yeah.

529
00:34:43,595.0501756 --> 00:34:53,405.0501756
Before Solomon Rushdi had for decades and still has, uh, a fais, uh, against him and was attacked, stabbed within the last few years.

530
00:34:53,855.0501756 --> 00:34:57,910.0501756
And that was a fais that was put in place, you know? 40 plus years ago, so, yeah.

531
00:34:57,910.0501756 --> 00:35:02,860.0501756
And remember how you Republicans felt when he got attacked and you said that was stupid.

532
00:35:02,860.0501756 --> 00:35:03,880.0501756
That should never happen.

533
00:35:03,880.0501756 --> 00:35:03,970.0501756
Yeah.

534
00:35:04,150.0501756 --> 00:35:04,960.0501756
Listen up.

535
00:35:05,50.0501756 --> 00:35:06,790.0501756
You, you guys think you're different.

536
00:35:07,270.0501756 --> 00:35:07,540.0501756
Yeah.

537
00:35:07,540.0501756 --> 00:35:19,840.0501756
When one of your like Joe Blow types with a MAGA red hat calls up and leaves a threatening message with, you know, often it's members of Congress or something like that, but it's authors too, and they track them down.

538
00:35:20,165.0501756 --> 00:35:21,875.0501756
And they threaten their families.

539
00:35:21,875.0501756 --> 00:35:23,255.0501756
And they terrify them.

540
00:35:23,255.0501756 --> 00:35:23,345.0501756
Yeah.

541
00:35:23,345.0501756 --> 00:35:24,935.0501756
I mean that essentially is terrorism.

542
00:35:25,85.0501756 --> 00:35:25,145.0501756
Wow.

543
00:35:25,145.0501756 --> 00:35:27,365.0501756
And so they have to have a way to protect themselves.

544
00:35:27,365.0501756 --> 00:35:27,995.0501756
Seriously.

545
00:35:27,995.0501756 --> 00:35:33,275.0501756
I don't know why it popped into my head when you said Joe Blow, but I, for some reason I thought of Joe the plumber.

546
00:35:33,575.0501756 --> 00:35:34,385.0501756
Oh my gosh.

547
00:35:34,565.0501756 --> 00:35:37,775.0501756
He Now, what happened with that guy? Because that guy seems real.

548
00:35:37,925.0501756 --> 00:35:37,985.0501756
Yeah.

549
00:35:37,985.0501756 --> 00:35:43,805.0501756
Now, I'll be honest with you, dealing with this whole crew now, I think, I think he passed away a couple.

550
00:35:43,810.0501756 --> 00:35:49,210.0501756
A year or two really, or something wild that well then let us be the first to say our condolences to the widow plumber.

551
00:35:49,240.0501756 --> 00:35:49,330.0501756
Sure.

552
00:35:49,420.0501756 --> 00:35:53,260.0501756
Everyone, go find good news for lefties wherever you listen to your podcast.

553
00:35:58,66.8497389 --> 00:35:58,846.8497389
All right.

554
00:35:58,906.8497389 --> 00:36:01,486.8497389
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day.

555
00:36:01,486.8497389 --> 00:36:02,716.8497389
Scary book people.

556
00:36:02,896.8497389 --> 00:36:06,166.8497389
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

557
00:36:06,226.8497389 --> 00:36:10,366.8497389
Just head on over to bandcamp podcast.com/bluesky.

558
00:36:10,366.8497389 --> 00:36:12,676.8497389
And remember, that's banned with two ends.

559
00:36:12,976.8497389 --> 00:36:18,856.8497389
And look just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want.

560
00:36:18,856.8497389 --> 00:36:23,866.8497389
So follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

561
00:36:23,866.8497389 --> 00:36:24,826.8497389
I think you'll like it.

562
00:36:25,276.8497389 --> 00:36:25,726.8497389
Yes.

563
00:36:25,756.8497389 --> 00:36:27,106.8497389
Little quid pro quo.

564
00:36:27,751.8497389 --> 00:36:32,851.8497389
Bandcamp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

565
00:36:33,271.8497389 --> 00:36:40,801.8497389
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use, and finally, America isn't what it used to be.

566
00:36:40,801.8497389 --> 00:36:44,911.8497389
So be careful out there and resist when it matters.