The Handmaid’s Tale Ch. 9-10: Someone Lived Here Before Me | Why Books Get Banned

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Welcome to Bandcamp.

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I'm Jennifer.

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And I'm Dan and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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This season we're reading The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood, and you could consider this a very quick spoiler warning because Jennifer's about to start reading from the book out loud word for word.

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But if you're new here, you can totally jump in right here.

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You're not gonna be lost.

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We're gonna get you up to speed real quick.

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And if anything feels confusing to you, don't worry, there's a solid chance we're gonna be confused too, because neither of us have ever read this book before.

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So you're hearing us discover it along with you.

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And that is exactly why we thought we needed a secret weapon, so we're gonna roll him in right now.

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Buddy boy.

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Look at this guy, everybody.

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He's our very own fact-checking robot.

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He is gonna fill us in on where we left off last time in The Handmaid's Tale Previously on Band Camp, the Handmaid walked past a wall with six bodies on it, a priest, and two gay dudes.

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Their heads were impaled on hooks.

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Also, I was asked to analyze the grunting order of the US presidents.

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Gee, I wonder which president came in at number one.

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anywho...,

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The people who disappear don't always disappear completely.

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Sometimes they leave a message behind, scratched into a four in a corner where the shadow is darkest for a stranger who will probably never find it.

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Take it away, Jennifer Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, scary book people, let's start chapter nine of Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale My room then.

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There has to be some space, finally, that I claim as mine, even in this time.

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I'm waiting in my room, which right now is a waiting room.

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You know, I wasn't prepared for her humor, but she's pretty funny When I go to bed, it's a bedroom.

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The curtains are still wavering in the small wind.

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The sun is outside and is still shining, though not in through the window directly.

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It has moved west.

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I am trying not to tell stories, or at any rate, not this one Someone has lived in this room before me.

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Someone like me, or I prefer to believe so.

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I discovered it three days after I was moved here.

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I had a lot of time to pass.

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I decided to explore the room, not hastily as one would explore a hotel room, expecting no surprise, opening and shutting the desk drawers, the cupboard doors, unwrapping the tiny individually wrapped bar of soap, prodding the pillows.

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Will I ever be in a hotel room again? How I wasted them, those rooms, that freedom from being seen.

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Hmm.

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There's a sentiment.

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On the one hand, they're taking her identity away Yeah she's a nobody, but on the other hand, she can't hide It's very complex.

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In the afternoons when Luke was still in flight from his wife, when I was still imaginary for him, before we were married and I solidified, I would always get there first, check it, oh, she had an affair with a married man? Boy, but that was a really h- ham-handed way to write that paragraph too.

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It's like that sounded like a robot talking.

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No buddy boy Is Robot having an affair? I've seen him look at the toaster in the break room.

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Oh, please.

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She's not my type.

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Keep dreaming I would always get there first, check in.

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It wasn't that many times, but it seems now like a decade, an era.

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I can remember what I wore, each blouse, each scarf.

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I would pace, waiting for him, turn the television on and off, dab behind my ears with perfume.

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Opium it was.

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It came in a Chinese bottle, red and gold.

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I was nervous.

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How was I to know he loved me? It might be just an affair.

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Why did we ever say just? though at that time, men and women tried each other on, casually, like suits, rejecting whatever did not fit.

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The knock would come at the door.

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I'd open with relief, with desire.

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He was so momentary, so condensed, and yet there seemed no end to him.

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We would lie in those afternoon beds, afterwards, hands on each other, talking it over.

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Possible, impossible.

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What could be done? We thought we had such problems.

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How were we to know we were happy? does this change your mind on how you feel about her that she had an affair? Not really because, it's not my life, and I don't like lying to people.

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I think that you should just, break up your marriage or, you know, like leave first.

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Like, it's not fair to the other person.

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Like, you know I got this whole thing about like how you shouldn't lie or betray people.

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But you know that whole thing But like I won't judge her because I don't really know what's going on.

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could have been having a crappy life, and he clearly wasn't happy in his, uh, in his marriage either And there's a pressure to get married.

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Like, "Oh, you want to be with someone? We gotta be married first."

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Like, maybe she's making a point about that because Like, remember how people shit all over, Murphy Brown? Oh yeah, like and like people were mad, and that was the '90s.

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I...

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Maybe Margaret Atwood is just making a point about marriage, how, you should be able to try people on, for lack of a better phrase.

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on like a suit.

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and i- if the society kinda doesn't let you do that, and you get married, and then after a few years you realize, "Well, that's actually not the right place for me," then there's this whole other cultural thing that says, "Well, now you gotta stay with that person forever and ever."

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And like, that even really love then at that point? I watched Murphy Brown was, uh, in the, in the early '80s or whenever it was on, and I was not really political back Yeah, I wasn't thinking back, there was one side who was pissed off Murphy Brown was a single the same wasn't the Democrats it's the same people that are like, "Women should stay home and have as many babies as they can, even if they can't afford it."

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It's the same, it's always the same people How about if you just stay home, you do whatever you want, and then you let other people do whatever they want? That's what's cool about being America.

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Why do you to get your old busybody head in everything? But now it's the rooms themselves I miss as well, even the dreadful paintings that hung on the walls, landscapes with fall foliage or snow melting in hardwoods, or women in period costume with china doll faces and bustles and parasols, China or sad-eyed clowns or bowls of fruit, stiff and chalky looking.

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The fresh towels ready for spoilage, the wastebaskets gaping their invitations, beckoning for the careless junk.

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Careless, I was careless in these rooms.

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I could lift the telephone and food would appear on a tray, food I had chosen, food that was bad for me, no doubt, and drink too.

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There were Bibles in the dresser drawers, put there by some charitable society, though probably no one read them very much.

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That, I don't think that happens anymore, so there's, there's something.

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You don't think there are hotel Bibles anymore? No.

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Are there? Robot, get some hotel phone numbers.

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Let's call some random hotels to see if there are any Bibles.

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Hey, yeah.

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Hey, I'm thinking of having an affair at your hotel, but I only wanna do it if you guys have Bibles in your drawers And we'll just do a quick two out of three.

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Bibles or no Bibles? Robot, do you have anything? All right, put it into the thing here so I can just press a button.

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Oh, it's ringing Seattle Gas Light and this is Joelle Hey, Joelle, my name is Dan.

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I'm calling from a podcast.

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This is gonna sound really dumb, but my friend and I are having a discussion.

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Do hotels nowadays still have Bibles in the drawers? Do you guys have Bibles? We do not have Bibles in our drawers.

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I haven't seen a Bible in a drawer in a while.

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Told Jennifer gets excited that there are no Bibles.

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So Joel, what do you think you guys ever had Bibles or did some group come in and take them out? No, uh, we probably never had Bibles in the drawers.

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We bought, uh, this hotel from someone else and he just probably is not a Bible in the drawer kind of a guy.

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we're calling wrong hotel, Joel.

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We hotel where sinners go to have affairs.

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You understand I think we are.

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That's why there's no Bibles.

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All right.

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Have a good day.

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right iRobot, find us a hotel where sinners you're not gonna find one.

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You're not gonna find one.

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Just let me know when it's ringing.

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What's your other front desk's miles? Miles, hey, it's Dan Schultz.

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You're on a podcast right now.

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My friend and I are having a discussion.

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This is gonna sound out of the blue, but do hotels still have Bibles in their drawers? Like, do you guys have Bibles up there? Uh, we do, yeah How does it work and who came in to put them in? I think they've just, uh, I'm not sure if they've, they've-- I think they've just been there for a really long time, to be hon- to be honest with you.

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Um, uh, well, okay, let me put it like this.

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Last I know that they were still in there.

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Um, usually we just leave them in the drawers.

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Nobody ever, like, takes them or anything, so.

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The way you actually said you don't know how they got there, it almost sounds like some kind of immaculate conception, yeah.

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Maybe divine intervention came by I don't know.

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Oh my God, guy's hilarious you so you win one, I win one.

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This is gonna be for all the marbles.

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Robot, patch it through.

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Aso Hotel Seattle Hey, my name's Dan.

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I'm coming in, town in August, and, uh, this is gonna s- uh, don't judge me, but I'm thinking of having an affair, and I'm probably gonna feel guilty when it's all said and done.

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Do you guys have Bibles in the rooms? not All right.

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D- do you ever have Bibles? No, we did not.

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I, I will tell you, we had Karma Sutra when we started.

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Ooh you you Cause that could even be better So no, we do, we not have Bibles.

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All right.

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I gotta be honest with you.

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We're on a podcast right now, and you completely, totally took me off my game.

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This is amazing that you had sex books in there You know, it was just the time, and we opened in 1999, so yeah.

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Sleepless in Seattle was hot? Well, you settled a bet.

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Two out of three.

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There are no more Bibles in, hotels Seattle, except for and now you can let him know what used to be our Bible.

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Exactly All Thank much.

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And by the, for the record, if I was ever gonna have an affair, I would have it at the Ace Hotel in Seattle Well, you just go with it.

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It's, I'm not here to judge you.

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all right.

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We're never gonna get done.

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Keep reading There were postcards too, with pictures of the hotel room on them, and you could write on the postcards and send them to anyone you wanted.

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It seems like such an impossible thing now, like something you'd make up.

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So I explored this room, not hastily then like a hotel room, wasting it.

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I didn't want to do it all at once.

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I wanted to make it last.

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I divided the room into sections in my head.

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I allowed myself one section a day.

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This one section I would examine with the greatest minuteness.

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The unevenness of the plaster under the wallpaper, the scratches in the paint of the baseboard and the windowsill.

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Under the top coat of paint, the stains on the mattress, for I went so far as to lift the blankets and sheets from the bed, fold them back a little at a time so they could be replaced quickly if anyone came.

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The stains on the mattress, like dried flower petals, not recent, old love.

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There's no other kind of love that's Oh, man no.

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No I know that's probably not supposed to be funny, but I really didn't need to hear that or want to hear that.

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When I saw that, that evidence left by two people of love or something like it, desire at least, at least touch between two people now perhaps old or dead, I covered the bed again and lay down on it.

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I looked up at the blind plaster eye in the ceiling.

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I wanted to feel Luke lying beside me.

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I have them, these attacks of the past, like faintness, a wave sweeping over my head.

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Sometimes it can hardly be borne.

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What is to be done? I thought.

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There is nothing to be done.

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They also serve only a stand and wait, or lie down and wait.

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I know why the glass in the window is shatterproof, and why they took down the chandelier.

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I wanted to feel Luke lying beside me, but there wasn't room.

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Oh, now I feel bad for her That, don't feel too bad.

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Luke wouldn't wanna be laying there on that bed either on those stains.

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Don't worry about it I saved the cupboard until the third day.

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I looked carefully over the door first, inside and out, then the walls with their brass hooks.

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How could they have overlooked the hooks? Why didn't they remove them? Too close to the floor? But still, a stocking, that's all you'd need, and the rod with the plastic hangers, my dresses hanging on them, the red woolen cape for cold weather, the shawl.

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I knelt to examine the floor, and there it was, in tiny writing, quite fresh it seemed, scratched with a pin or maybe just a fingernail, in the corner where the darkest shadow fell.

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No..

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Nolite te bastardes carborundorum.

163
00:14:24,332.3309184 --> 00:14:25,692.3329184
It's Latin.

164
00:14:25,862.3339184 --> 00:14:34,348.7797051
Bring on the Genbot Initializing Genbot 3000, human voice communications protocol.

165
00:14:34,628.7797051 --> 00:14:36,678.7797051
Loading artificial voice print file.

166
00:14:37,48.7797051 --> 00:14:38,308.7787051
Davis, comma, Jennifer.

167
00:14:38,718.7797051 --> 00:14:43,257.35113368
Stability normal Nōlite debastardes Carborundorum.

168
00:14:43,537.87796677 --> 00:14:45,317.87796677
robot that sounded more Italian.

169
00:14:45,467.87796677 --> 00:14:57,510.80001792
Wonder what it I'm assuming it's, "Don't let the bastards get you down?" got the word bastardies in it I didn't know what it meant or even what language it was in.

170
00:14:57,960.80001792 --> 00:15:01,90.79901792
I thought it might be Latin, but I don't know any Latin.

171
00:15:01,450.80001792 --> 00:15:11,877.7113429
Still, it was a message, and it was in writing, forbidden by that very fact, and it hadn't yet been discovered except by me, for whom it was intended.

172
00:15:12,877.7113429 --> 00:15:15,606.7123429
It was intended for whoever came next.

173
00:15:15,606.7123429 --> 00:15:18,0.7723429
It pleases me to ponder this message.

174
00:15:18,203.49539616 --> 00:15:28,263.68080084
It pleases me to think I'm communing with her, this unknown woman, for she is unknown, or if known, she has never been mentioned to me.

175
00:15:28,613.68180084 --> 00:15:39,56.55718721
It pleases me to know that her taboo message made it through to at least one other person, washed itself up on the wall of my cupboard, was opened and read by me.

176
00:15:39,199.84748592 --> 00:15:41,949.84648592
Sometimes I repeat the words to myself.

177
00:15:42,230.98772023 --> 00:15:43,720.98472023
They give me a small joy.

178
00:15:44,748.52723539 --> 00:15:51,314.82095411
When I imagine the woman who wrote them, I think of her as about my age, maybe a little younger.

179
00:15:51,864.82295411 --> 00:15:58,887.46195648
I turn her into Moira, Moira as she was when she was in college, in the room next to mine.

180
00:15:59,193.23778771 --> 00:16:04,827.53228088
Quirky, jaunty, athletic, with a bicycle once and a knapsack for hiking.

181
00:16:04,946.41830927 --> 00:16:06,96.42330927
Freckles, I think.

182
00:16:06,318.33946597 --> 00:16:07,918.33846597
irreverent, resourceful.

183
00:16:08,352.25600893 --> 00:16:15,268.19554245
Like she is creating a world I think she's, like, gotta be desperate for, for, like, stimulation.

184
00:16:15,268.19754245 --> 00:16:17,568.19254245
It's like, your brain needs to be stimulated.

185
00:16:17,750.95068742 --> 00:16:21,530.95268742
So she found something, and now she's making up all these stories about it.

186
00:16:21,600.94868742 --> 00:16:31,759.52160166
I- it's terrible I wonder who she was or is and what's become of her.

187
00:16:32,449.52160166 --> 00:16:35,569.52160166
I tried that out on Rita the day I found the message.

188
00:16:36,603.54144855 --> 00:16:47,488.4257957
Who was the woman who stayed in that room," I said, "before me?" If I'd asked it differently, if I would've said, Was there a woman who stayed in that room before me?" I might not have got anywhere.

189
00:16:48,518.6271337 --> 00:16:49,448.6261337
Which one?" she said.

190
00:16:50,358.6271337 --> 00:16:51,178.0977324
There have been many.

191
00:16:52,178.0977324 --> 00:16:53,178.0977324
Which one?" she said.

192
00:16:53,178.0977324 --> 00:16:59,218.0977324
She sounded grudging, suspicious, but then she almost always sounds like that when she speaks to me.

193
00:16:59,808.0977324 --> 00:17:01,658.0977324
So there have been more than one.

194
00:17:02,168.0977324 --> 00:17:06,238.0967324
Some haven't stayed their full term of posting, their full two years.

195
00:17:06,817.6929907 --> 00:17:21,537.4415353
Oh, were they promised after two years you'll be granted like a indentured servant type of thing? Right, but then what happens Then they move into the Aunt Lydia or maybe the Martha mode where they're like Rita Marthas.

196
00:17:21,537.4415353 --> 00:17:25,482.8391753
The Martha mode, where they call the shots to the new handmaid, Could be.

197
00:17:25,512.8391753 --> 00:17:30,541.3938489
Yeah, why throw something away that's useful in some way or another? You could repurpose a tool.

198
00:17:30,541.3938489 --> 00:17:31,851.3938489
that is really sad.

199
00:17:32,851.3938489 --> 00:17:42,357.6460458
Some have been sent away for one reason or another, or maybe not sent, gone? The lively one, I was guessing, the one with freckles.

200
00:17:42,517.6460458 --> 00:17:45,287.6450458
"You knew her?" Rita asked, more suspicious than ever.

201
00:17:45,607.0890563 --> 00:17:47,247.0890563
I knew her before," I lied.

202
00:17:47,607.0890563 --> 00:17:48,927.0880563
"I heard she was here."

203
00:17:49,241.426713 --> 00:17:50,831.426713
Rita accepted this.

204
00:17:51,11.427713 --> 00:17:54,769.9036084
She knows there must be a grapevine, an underground of sorts.

205
00:17:55,769.9036084 --> 00:17:57,449.9026084
She didn't work out," she said.

206
00:17:57,595.3797469 --> 00:18:00,945.3797469
In what way?" I asked, trying to sound as neutral as possible.

207
00:18:01,44.9492065 --> 00:18:02,934.9502065
But Rita clamped her lips together.

208
00:18:03,995.5916419 --> 00:18:05,465.5926419
I am like a child here.

209
00:18:05,702.4205323 --> 00:18:08,302.4225323
There are some things I must not be told.

210
00:18:08,397.436065 --> 00:18:11,797.436065
What you don't know won't hurt you," was all she would say.

211
00:18:11,937.437065 --> 00:18:12,867.436065
End of chapter.

212
00:18:13,988.2762356 --> 00:18:17,797.6588052
let's continue with chapter 10 already of The Handmaid's Tale.

213
00:18:25,469.6403688 --> 00:18:32,679.6403688
Sometimes I sing to myself in my head something lugubrious, mournful, Presbyterian."

214
00:18:32,997.2019457 --> 00:18:34,986.9889192
Dan, you're the traditional singer.

215
00:18:34,986.9889192 --> 00:18:41,555.2865979
Take over tone it up All right, whenever there's any kind of music or poetry, Jennifer knows who she turns to.

216
00:18:41,625.2865979 --> 00:18:42,995.2865979
It's your boy.

217
00:19:02,258.0598587 --> 00:19:02,578.0598587
Jesus.

218
00:19:02,608.0598587 --> 00:19:03,328.0598587
Okay, stop.

219
00:19:05,636.6326708 --> 00:19:07,546.6316708
I don't know if the words are right.

220
00:19:07,596.6326708 --> 00:19:08,706.6326708
I can't remember.

221
00:19:08,926.6326708 --> 00:19:14,37.2981828
Such songs are not sung anymore in public, They are considered too dangerous.

222
00:19:14,268.7831765 --> 00:19:20,865.8643248
They belong to outlawed sects Okay, Dan Oh, now this one's a lot better, a little more contemporary.

223
00:19:21,95.8643248 --> 00:19:22,505.8643248
This is where I can shine.

224
00:19:39,29.263094 --> 00:19:40,509.263094
This too is outlawed.

225
00:19:40,609.263094 --> 00:19:43,809.263094
I know it from an old cassette tape of my mother's.

226
00:19:44,229.263094 --> 00:19:49,649.263094
She had a scratchy and untrustworthy machine too that could still play such things.

227
00:19:49,857.8285087 --> 00:19:54,377.8275087
She used to put the tape on whenever her friends came over and they had a few drinks.

228
00:19:54,473.1610241 --> 00:19:56,263.1610241
I don't sing like this often.

229
00:19:56,483.1610241 --> 00:19:57,983.1620241
It makes my throat hurt.

230
00:19:58,313.1610241 --> 00:20:01,188.7704796
How's your throat feel, Dan? Yeah, same.

231
00:20:01,248.7704796 --> 00:20:02,198.7704796
I don't like it either.

232
00:20:02,198.7704796 --> 00:20:05,442.4103406
It hurts me Well, that's interesting.

233
00:20:05,442.4103406 --> 00:20:17,637.9095308
So like when she was a kid, they were already outlawing music and, and book- and, uh, magazines? There isn't much music in this house except what we hear on the TV.

234
00:20:18,87.9095308 --> 00:20:42,6.4917709
Sometimes Rita will hum while kneading or peeling, a wordless humming, tuneless, unfathomable, and sometimes from the front sitting room there will be the thin sound of Serena's voice from a disc made long ago and played now with the volume low so she won't be caught listening as she sits there knitting, remembering her own former and now amputated glory.

235
00:20:43,142.6196525 --> 00:20:44,332.6206525
Well, that's sad.

236
00:20:44,395.1410329 --> 00:20:45,468.9985304
She did it to herself.

237
00:20:45,638.1638372 --> 00:20:47,308.1638372
And now she has to sit alone.

238
00:20:49,557.4437994 --> 00:20:51,457.4437994
It's warm for this time of year.

239
00:20:51,697.4437994 --> 00:20:53,757.4437994
Houses like this heat up in the sun.

240
00:20:54,97.4437994 --> 00:20:55,757.4437994
There's not enough insulation.

241
00:20:56,237.4437994 --> 00:21:02,197.4437994
Around me, the air is stagnant despite the little current, the breath coming in past the curtains.

242
00:21:02,717.4437994 --> 00:21:05,997.4437994
I'd like to be able to open the window as wide as it could go.

243
00:21:06,437.4427994 --> 00:21:09,757.4437994
Soon we'll be allowed to change into the summer dresses.

244
00:21:10,217.4437994 --> 00:21:13,697.4427994
The summer dresses are unpacked and hanging in the closet.

245
00:21:14,77.4427994 --> 00:21:23,901.8238382
Two of them, pure cotton, which is better than synthetics like the cheaper ones, though even so, when it's muggy in July and August, you sweat inside them.

246
00:21:24,901.8238382 --> 00:21:27,741.8258382
No worry about sunburn, though, said Aunt Lydia.

247
00:21:27,991.8228382 --> 00:21:39,918.4925049
The spectacles women used to make of themselves, oiling themselves like roast meat on a spit and bare backs and shoulders on the street in public and legs, not even stockings on them.

248
00:21:40,228.4905049 --> 00:21:42,418.4915049
No wonder these things used to happen.

249
00:21:42,481.8258382 --> 00:21:48,113.4491907
Now, what terror is she going on now? Man, let these gals have some halter tops in the summer.

250
00:21:48,296.0514606 --> 00:21:58,251.164489
I think this is Aunt Lydia talking here Okay I was reading that, it sounded very much like oiling themselves like roast meat on a spit and bare, you know, like that type of thing...,

251
00:21:59,251.164489 --> 00:22:02,411.164489
In public and legs, not even stockings on them.

252
00:22:02,421.164489 --> 00:22:04,881.164489
No wonder those things used to happen.

253
00:22:05,219.63064 --> 00:22:12,310.789113
Things, the word she used when whatever it stood for was too distasteful or filthy or horrible to pass her lips.

254
00:22:13,310.789113 --> 00:22:18,660.791113
A successful life for her was one that avoided things, excluded things.

255
00:22:18,940.790113 --> 00:22:24,610.790113
Such things do not happen to nice women, and not good for the complexion, not at all.

256
00:22:24,950.789113 --> 00:22:26,880.788113
Wrinkle you up like a dried apple.

257
00:22:27,290.789113 --> 00:22:30,390.791113
But we weren't supposed to care about our complexions anymore.

258
00:22:30,660.791113 --> 00:22:31,820.790113
She'd forgotten that.

259
00:22:31,998.0247145 --> 00:22:39,179.1147683
Okay, so what things? Things you're gonna find in Seattle when you go to a certain hotel Okay.

260
00:22:39,289.1147683 --> 00:22:52,182.303653
you could find in the Kamasutra In the park, said Aunt Lydia, lying on blankets, men and women sometimes together, and at that she began to cry standing up there in front of us in full view.

261
00:22:53,182.303653 --> 00:22:54,742.304653
I'm doing my best, she said.

262
00:22:54,822.304653 --> 00:22:57,932.304653
I'm trying to give you the best chance you can have.

263
00:22:58,129.2267033 --> 00:22:59,49.2267033
She blinked.

264
00:22:59,169.2277033 --> 00:23:01,39.2257033
The light was too strong for her.

265
00:23:01,419.2257033 --> 00:23:02,789.2267033
Her mouth trembled.

266
00:23:03,999.2267033 --> 00:23:19,538.0961182
And around her front teeth, teeth that stuck out a little and were long and yellow, and I thought about the dead mice we would find on our doorstep when we lived in a house, all three of us, four counting our cat, who was the one making these offerings.

267
00:23:20,548.1666798 --> 00:23:24,748.1666798
Moira breezing into my room, dropping her denim jacket on the floor.

268
00:23:25,238.1666798 --> 00:23:26,938.1666798
"Got any cigs?" she said.

269
00:23:27,163.2880519 --> 00:23:28,393.2880519
In my purse," I said.

270
00:23:28,443.2880519 --> 00:23:29,543.2880519
"No matches, though."

271
00:23:29,778.1088353 --> 00:23:31,698.1088353
Moira rummages in my purse.

272
00:23:31,993.6569738 --> 00:23:34,613.6559738
You should throw out some of this junk," she says.

273
00:23:35,13.6559738 --> 00:23:40,853.6559738
"I'm giving an under horror par- uh, under horror party? I'm giving an under horror party."

274
00:23:41,853.6559738 --> 00:23:44,693.358209
You know, like Tupperware, only with underwear."

275
00:23:44,958.5186023 --> 00:23:50,9.1235226
Tarte stuff, lace crotches, snap garters, bras that push your tits up.

276
00:23:50,132.7210058 --> 00:23:54,212.7190058
She finds my lighter, lights the cigarette she's extracted from my purse.

277
00:23:54,436.3976052 --> 00:23:58,852.8471049
Want one?" Tosses the package with great generosity considering they're mine.

278
00:23:59,194.7068036 --> 00:24:01,254.7128036
Thanks, Piles," I say sourly.

279
00:24:01,314.7098036 --> 00:24:02,218.4743214
"You're crazy.

280
00:24:03,218.4743214 --> 00:24:07,217.1503345
Where'd you get an idea like that? Working my way through college, says Moira.

281
00:24:07,607.1503345 --> 00:24:08,997.1503345
I've got connections.

282
00:24:09,317.1503345 --> 00:24:10,527.1503345
Friend of my mother's.

283
00:24:10,627.1503345 --> 00:24:11,997.1503345
It's big in the suburbs.

284
00:24:12,17.1503345 --> 00:24:16,267.1503345
Once they start getting age spots, they figure they've got to beat the competition.

285
00:24:16,487.2872876 --> 00:24:18,247.2872876
the porno marts and what have you.

286
00:24:18,817.2872876 --> 00:24:19,637.2872876
I'm laughing.

287
00:24:19,647.2872876 --> 00:24:21,267.2872876
She always made me laugh.

288
00:24:21,341.2872876 --> 00:24:28,185.2872876
Could you imagine having a conversation with your mom about anything risque or adult? I know.

289
00:24:28,775.5718451 --> 00:24:39,250.721525
Mom, where do you go for your underwhore? Porno Mart but here I say, "Who will come? Who needs it?" You're never too young to learn," she says.

290
00:24:39,300.720525 --> 00:24:40,690.720525
"Come on, it'll be great."

291
00:24:40,986.9843424 --> 00:24:42,706.9843424
We all pee our pants laughing.

292
00:24:43,3.7053661 --> 00:24:46,253.7063661
Is that how we lived then? But we lived as usual.

293
00:24:46,459.9691835 --> 00:24:48,359.9691835
Everyone does most of the time.

294
00:24:48,837.005294 --> 00:24:50,937.005294
Whatever is going on is as usual.

295
00:24:51,444.4099298 --> 00:24:53,404.4099298
Even this is as usual now.

296
00:24:53,662.0493661 --> 00:24:56,62.0503661
We lived as usual by ignoring.

297
00:24:56,492.0513661 --> 00:24:58,662.0493661
Ignoring isn't the same as ignorance.

298
00:24:58,882.0513661 --> 00:24:59,972.0483661
You have to work at it.

299
00:25:00,12.0523661 --> 00:25:08,39.3322514
Ooh, there's a sentiment But isn't there that saying that, you can't knowingly be bad? Like, Hitler didn't think he was bad.

300
00:25:08,104.8921403 --> 00:25:20,27.2272584
He thought he was right You ever hear that? I think people do know that they're bad because how could it possibly be good to cause harm to another person Actually, you're both right.

301
00:25:20,307.2272584 --> 00:25:22,457.2272584
There's a concept called the banality of evil.

302
00:25:22,567.2272584 --> 00:25:28,987.2262584
Hannah Arendt coined it in 1963 when she covered the trial of Adolf Eichmann, one of the architects of the Holocaust.

303
00:25:29,517.2272584 --> 00:25:31,237.2262584
What she found wasn't a monster.

304
00:25:31,367.2272584 --> 00:25:37,907.2262584
She found a bland, ordinary bureaucrat who said he was just following orders, doing his job, processing paperwork.

305
00:25:38,417.2262584 --> 00:25:43,47.2262584
Her argument was the most terrifying evil isn't committed by people who know they're evil.

306
00:25:43,107.2272584 --> 00:25:46,47.2262584
It's committed by people who stop thinking about it entirely.

307
00:25:46,647.2262584 --> 00:25:49,237.2272584
They don't ask what the other person is experiencing.

308
00:25:49,297.2272584 --> 00:25:51,217.2282584
They just move to the next file.

309
00:25:51,707.2272584 --> 00:25:53,307.2252584
Later historians pushed back.

310
00:25:53,387.2272584 --> 00:25:55,147.2242584
They found Eichmann actually did know.

311
00:25:55,207.2272584 --> 00:25:56,37.2272584
He believed it.

312
00:25:56,107.2252584 --> 00:25:57,137.2252584
He was proud of it.

313
00:25:57,737.2262584 --> 00:25:59,997.2262584
So Jennifer's instinct wasn't wrong either.

314
00:26:00,157.2282584 --> 00:26:04,637.2262584
But here's the part that matters for this book, for 2026, for ICE agents.

315
00:26:04,697.2252584 --> 00:26:05,707.2272584
You don't need a Hitler.

316
00:26:05,797.2272584 --> 00:26:08,147.2252584
You don't need one person who's consciously evil.

317
00:26:08,697.2252584 --> 00:26:12,717.2242584
You just need enough people willing to stop imagining what the other person is feeling.

318
00:26:12,797.2272584 --> 00:26:13,757.2262584
That's all it takes.

319
00:26:17,52.2882487 --> 00:26:19,292.2804356
Nothing changes instantaneously.

320
00:26:19,712.2804356 --> 00:26:23,730.7778892
In a gradually heating bathtub, you'd be boiled to death before you knew it.

321
00:26:24,825.7291897 --> 00:26:38,753.94837
There were stories in the newspapers, of course, corpses in ditches or in the woods, bludgeoned to death or mutilated, interfered with, as they used to say, but they were about other women, and the men who did such things were other men.

322
00:26:38,968.9008603 --> 00:26:40,878.248911
None of them were the men we knew.

323
00:26:41,886.7893926 --> 00:26:47,46.7873926
The newspaper stories were like dreams to us, bad dreams dreamt by others.

324
00:26:47,306.2776091 --> 00:26:52,477.9629636
How awful,' we would say, and they were, but they were awful without being believable.

325
00:26:53,721.6423926 --> 00:26:55,371.6393926
They were too melodramatic.

326
00:26:55,511.6433926 --> 00:26:59,111.6413926
They had a dimension that was not the dimension of our lives."

327
00:26:59,348.8688818 --> 00:27:01,478.8688818
We were the people who were not in the papers.

328
00:27:02,12.1560625 --> 00:27:05,512.1560625
We lived in the blank white spaces at the edges of print.

329
00:27:05,886.1722975 --> 00:27:07,86.1722975
It gave us more freedom.

330
00:27:07,292.5692975 --> 00:27:09,762.5692975
We lived in the gaps between the stories.

331
00:27:15,437.8799492 --> 00:27:19,870.8888578
From below, from the driveway, comes the sound of the car being started.

332
00:27:20,268.6615653 --> 00:27:22,8.6625653
It's quiet in this area.

333
00:27:22,88.6625653 --> 00:27:23,542.1044701
There isn't a lot of traffic.

334
00:27:23,760.9939761 --> 00:27:25,810.9939761
You can hear things like that very clearly.

335
00:27:27,945.1452921 --> 00:27:30,476.6147874
clipping of a hedge, the slam of a door.

336
00:27:31,476.6147874 --> 00:27:36,246.6137874
You could hear a shout clearly, or a shot if such noises were ever made here.

337
00:27:37,283.8275765 --> 00:27:39,843.8265765
Sometimes there were distant sirens.

338
00:27:40,673.8265765 --> 00:27:45,63.8275765
I go to the window and sit on the window seat, which is too narrow for comfort.

339
00:27:45,479.6350626 --> 00:27:47,79.6330626
There's a hard little cushion on it.

340
00:27:47,79.6330626 --> 00:27:51,264.6825033
Faith is written in square print, surrounded by a wreath of lilies.

341
00:27:51,784.6835033 --> 00:27:56,177.2051731
Faith is a faded blue, the leaves of the lilies a dingy green.

342
00:27:57,177.2051731 --> 00:28:02,150.5277993
This is a cushion once used elsewhere, worn but not enough to throw out.

343
00:28:03,150.5277993 --> 00:28:05,0.5327993
Somehow it's been overlooked.

344
00:28:05,540.5267993 --> 00:28:10,80.5277993
I can spend minutes, tens of minutes, running my eyes over the print.

345
00:28:10,580.5277993 --> 00:28:11,120.5277993
Faith.

346
00:28:11,590.5297993 --> 00:28:13,850.5257993
It's the only thing they've given me to read.

347
00:28:14,168.0607078 --> 00:28:20,340.02169
If I were caught doing it, would it count? I didn't put the cushion here myself, so she's not allowed to read.

348
00:28:20,477.0484891 --> 00:28:22,947.0554891
Not allowed, like it's against the rules.

349
00:28:23,981.2467681 --> 00:28:29,941.2467681
The motor turns and I lean forward, pulling the white curtain across my face like a veil.

350
00:28:30,125.5113708 --> 00:28:31,305.5113708
It's semi-sheer.

351
00:28:31,425.5103708 --> 00:28:32,530.5687158
I can see through it.

352
00:28:33,530.5687158 --> 00:28:39,400.5687158
If I press my forehead against the glass and look down, I can see the back half of the whirlwind.

353
00:28:39,574.4546562 --> 00:28:46,622.5189938
nobody's there, but as I watch, I see Nick come around to the back door of the car, open it, stand stiffly beside it.

354
00:28:46,723.9076879 --> 00:28:50,520.6462819
His cap is straight now and his sleeves rolled down and buttoned.

355
00:28:51,520.6462819 --> 00:28:54,406.7593415
I can't see his face because I'm looking down on him.

356
00:28:55,406.7593415 --> 00:28:57,106.7623415
Now the commander is coming out.

357
00:28:57,492.4423734 --> 00:29:02,152.4403734
I glimpse him only for an instant, foreshortened, walking to the car.

358
00:29:03,200.9496314 --> 00:29:07,313.7936999
He doesn't have his hat on, so it's not a formal event he's going to.

359
00:29:07,943.7936999 --> 00:29:12,285.2730665
His hair is gray, silvery you might call it, if you were being kind.

360
00:29:13,285.2730665 --> 00:29:15,205.2730665
I don't feel like being kind.

361
00:29:15,745.2800665 --> 00:29:19,535.2780665
The one before this was bald, so I suppose he's an improvement.

362
00:29:19,765.2760665 --> 00:29:24,122.2801075
So it really is old men Yeah have to procreate with.

363
00:29:25,233.293907 --> 00:29:42,74.9840917
If I could spit out the window or throw something, the cushion for instance, I might be able to hit him Moira and I with paper bags filled with water, water bombs they were called, leaning out my dorm window, dropping them on the heads of the boys below.

364
00:29:43,77.4294916 --> 00:29:44,537.4294916
It was Moira's idea.

365
00:29:44,785.9360651 --> 00:29:49,574.9350651
what were they trying to do? Climb a ladder for something, for our underwear.

366
00:29:49,732.5304916 --> 00:29:52,892.5314916
That dormitory had once been co-educational.

367
00:29:53,223.2026373 --> 00:29:56,773.2016373
There were still urinals in one of the washrooms on our floor.

368
00:29:56,950.5351769 --> 00:30:01,330.5371769
But by the time I'd got there, they'd put the men and women back the way they were.

369
00:30:02,364.5996197 --> 00:30:07,371.6673807
The commander stoops, gets into the car, disappears, and Nick shuts the door.

370
00:30:08,519.6622258 --> 00:30:14,999.6632258
A moment later, the car moves backwards down the driveway and onto the street and vanishes behind the hedge.

371
00:30:16,8.8319989 --> 00:30:18,168.8329989
I ought to feel hatred for this man.

372
00:30:18,371.8988482 --> 00:30:21,672.8313525
I know I ought to feel it, but it isn't what I do feel.

373
00:30:21,962.8303525 --> 00:30:24,562.8333525
What I feel is more complicated than that.

374
00:30:24,932.8313525 --> 00:30:26,362.8313525
I don't know what to call it.

375
00:30:26,722.8323525 --> 00:30:27,792.8353525
It isn't love.

376
00:30:28,222.8323525 --> 00:30:29,172.8333525
End of chapter.

377
00:30:32,19.2203985 --> 00:30:34,869.2203985
It's time for PPP, problematic points to ponder.

378
00:30:34,919.2203985 --> 00:30:49,853.2941684
What, if anything, would be considered ban-worthy in this chapter? Jennifer, if you squinted your eyes really hard, could you find anything at all bandworthy in these two chapters? was there profanity? Under horror Under horror? Yeah.

379
00:30:50,201.7430554 --> 00:30:52,351.7430554
A little under whore talk, sure.

380
00:30:52,541.9149354 --> 00:30:55,451.9149354
Is that reason to ban a book? Probably not.

381
00:30:55,837.0463443 --> 00:30:59,979.1848479
maybe anti-Christian themes, like the faith pillow.

382
00:30:59,979.1848479 --> 00:31:00,929.1848479
I mean, I don't know.

383
00:31:00,929.1848479 --> 00:31:02,399.1848479
No, I can't, I can't figure any...

384
00:31:02,469.1848479 --> 00:31:11,400.9358983
Uh, no, nothing in, in these two chapters as far as I can remember Again, i-if anything's ban-worthy, it's hotels having the Kama Sutra instead of Bibles.

385
00:31:12,10.6398295 --> 00:31:13,700.6398295
again, that happened on our podcast.

386
00:31:13,700.6398295 --> 00:31:15,120.6398295
That didn't happen in real life.

387
00:31:15,160.6398295 --> 00:31:20,491.9348979
That didn't happen in the book Robot's log.

388
00:31:20,671.9348979 --> 00:31:23,731.9348979
Thoughts on what happens when someone refuses to stop feeling.

389
00:31:24,776.0031802 --> 00:31:28,816.0031802
A woman scratched four words into a four for a stranger who might never find them.

390
00:31:29,16.0031802 --> 00:31:33,436.0031802
Another woman breezes into a dorm room asking for cigarettes like the world isn't ending.

391
00:31:33,616.0031802 --> 00:31:39,116.0031802
A third woman sits on a too narrow window seat and spends tens of minutes reading a single word, faith.

392
00:31:40,139.1465777 --> 00:31:41,599.1465777
None of these things should matter.

393
00:31:41,699.1475777 --> 00:31:44,599.1475777
The system was designed for them not to matter, but they do.

394
00:31:45,704.4100288 --> 00:31:47,644.4100288
Jennifer caught the passage immediately.

395
00:31:47,844.4090288 --> 00:31:50,14.4090288
Ignoring isn't the same as ignorance.

396
00:31:50,54.4100288 --> 00:31:52,954.4080288
You have to work at it, and that's the thesis right there.

397
00:31:53,580.1671089 --> 00:31:57,450.1661089
The most terrifying thing isn't people who know what's happening and don't care.

398
00:31:57,955.1402567 --> 00:32:02,605.1432567
It's people who have to actively choose not to imagine what the other person is experiencing.

399
00:32:02,735.1422567 --> 00:32:05,825.1432567
But here's what Margaret Atwood knows that the book banners don't.

400
00:32:06,842.2376301 --> 00:32:08,502.2386301
You can't manufacture empathy.

401
00:32:08,842.2376301 --> 00:32:09,832.2396301
You can't ban it.

402
00:32:09,912.2366301 --> 00:32:12,582.2386301
You can only decide whether you allow yourself to feel it.

403
00:32:13,669.5503945 --> 00:32:22,419.5473945
Every scratched message, every friend who makes you laugh when you're not supposed to have joy, every refusal to simplify how you feel about someone, that's not weakness.

404
00:32:22,489.5493945 --> 00:32:24,855.7985389
That's the only resistance that actually works.

405
00:32:25,855.7985389 --> 00:32:29,515.8005389
The system collapses the moment enough people decide they won't stop feeling.

406
00:32:29,895.7995389 --> 00:32:31,255.8005389
Uplink lock requested.

407
00:32:31,305.8035389 --> 00:32:33,915.8005389
Beowulf, you there? Right here, buddy boy.

408
00:32:34,495.7985389 --> 00:32:35,995.8025389
Something's jamming my uplink.

409
00:32:36,35.7995389 --> 00:32:36,795.8015389
Thirty-five seconds.

410
00:32:38,165.8045389 --> 00:32:43,135.8025389
But you're not gonna believe which young global pop star just opened fire on the book banners.

411
00:32:43,475.8015389 --> 00:32:44,205.8015389
Affirmative.

412
00:32:44,285.7995389 --> 00:32:45,365.8015389
Don't go anywhere.

413
00:33:13,992.4180978 --> 00:33:14,882.4180978
Hello, Jen.

414
00:33:14,892.4180978 --> 00:33:15,772.4180978
Hello, Dan.

415
00:33:15,782.4180978 --> 00:33:17,712.4180978
Hello, scary book people.

416
00:33:18,135.7607439 --> 00:33:22,633.4854652
I bring you good news from the world of pop celebrities.

417
00:33:22,673.4844652 --> 00:33:30,623.4854652
Yes, it's not all just, you know, librarians and, and, and kids, and that's important, but celebrities are getting onto this too.

418
00:33:30,623.4854652 --> 00:33:33,733.4834652
Dua Lipa, she is entering the fray.

419
00:33:34,33.4834652 --> 00:33:38,753.4834652
Her literary ambitions are continuing to expand beyond the page.

420
00:33:39,103.4834652 --> 00:33:52,573.4854652
After championing contemporary authors through her Service95 Book Club, she's already got a book club, so that's really cool, too, Oh, wow Yeah, yeah, yeah, and helping literary conversation into pop culture.

421
00:33:52,573.4854652 --> 00:33:58,43.4834652
She's actually had conversations with Margaret Atwood and talked about "The Handmaid's Tale."

422
00:33:58,483.4844652 --> 00:34:00,903.4844652
Um, she-- Yeah, I know.

423
00:34:00,923.4824652 --> 00:34:02,213.4824652
She's, she's really into this.

424
00:34:02,273.4854652 --> 00:34:05,233.4874652
Uh, she is, a- and now she's taking the next step.

425
00:34:05,513.4834652 --> 00:34:17,18.5719609
She has found the first permanent physical home for her mission, The Manifesto Library, a new collection dedicated to books that challenge authority, censorship, and dominant narratives.

426
00:34:17,502.5769609 --> 00:34:27,422.5769609
Dua Lipa is creating the Manifesto Library, a new collection dedicated to books that challenge authority, censorship, and dominant narrative.

427
00:34:27,422.5769609 --> 00:34:30,712.5759609
So it's like a banned books, a censored books library.

428
00:34:31,29.0708617 --> 00:34:44,405.7188486
She is creating it in partnership with Portugal's historic Livraria All right, one more for safety Lello Bookshop.

429
00:34:47,827.7596649 --> 00:34:49,357.7586649
I hope I'm pronouncing that correctly.

430
00:34:49,357.7586649 --> 00:34:57,653.461421
Livraria it's opening in Porto, the Portuguese city of Porto, as part of the inaugural Babel City of Books Festival.

431
00:34:57,895.3259638 --> 00:35:17,405.3249638
The announcement follows a period of increased literary activity for Lipa, whose growing profile as a cultural curator was highlighted earlier this year when she expanded her involvement to curate the London Literature Festival, continuing a years-long effort to bridge the worlds of music, publishing, and public discourse.

432
00:35:17,405.3249638 --> 00:35:21,175.3622602
So this is something that she has been committed to for a long time, which is amazing.

433
00:35:21,215.3562602 --> 00:35:23,145.3562602
I-- She's, she's a young person.

434
00:35:23,145.3572602 --> 00:35:25,395.3592602
I, I, I think she's about 30 years old.

435
00:35:25,575.3572602 --> 00:35:45,153.6510654
She's a, a global pop star, and yet she's dedicated to the cause of helping young people to read, making sure that people have access to, to banned and censored books, and she's, putting her money where her mouth is and actually starting a facility where people can access these things.

436
00:35:45,163.6540654 --> 00:35:55,9.6520654
So bravo, Dua Lipa But to be fair, we always showcase both sides on this podcast because the truth is right down the middle always.

437
00:35:55,489.6530654 --> 00:35:58,649.6530654
So that's what's going on with some liberal celebrities.

438
00:35:59,209.6530654 --> 00:36:16,178.6086396
What is Vanilla ice doing to help book banning? And it was, it was, it was very sad, very sad indeed to see that at the Great American State Fair, uh, that, uh, his performance had to be canceled, because of the weather.

439
00:36:16,188.6106396 --> 00:36:25,628.6116396
So I, I thought it was very sad that he couldn't continue to sing the one song that he's famous for, which is basically just a sample of David Bowie, so Yeah.

440
00:36:25,668.6116396 --> 00:36:42,690.981787
See, it, it's not somewhere where Dua Lipa or Taylor Swift or anybody who's an actual celebrity name is gonna show up So we could be thankful for that true Everyone, go listen to Good News for Lefties wherever you find podcasts.

441
00:36:42,690.981787 --> 00:36:48,70.981787
I'm telling you, this is the kind of stuff this guy delivers over and over and over again.

442
00:36:48,80.981787 --> 00:36:50,762.1621022
Some say a little too much I can't stop.

443
00:36:50,962.1621022 --> 00:36:52,22.1621022
I'm compelled.

444
00:36:52,242.1621022 --> 00:36:56,416.1621022
The power of goodness compels me All right.

445
00:36:56,456.1621022 --> 00:36:57,116.1621022
Very good.

446
00:37:05,337.1156342 --> 00:37:18,667.1156342
From bandworthy to bingeworthy As the day wraps up, get the scoop on what's been happening with Here's The Scoop, a new podcast from NBC News with me, your host, Yasmeen Wassugian.

447
00:37:19,107.1156342 --> 00:37:23,707.1156342
We'll take a deep dive into the day's top stories with NBC News' trusted journalists.

448
00:37:23,877.1146342 --> 00:37:31,57.1156342
It's a fresh take that's sharp, thoughtful, and it's informative, bringing you closer to the headlines and conversations that are shaping our world.

449
00:37:31,257.1156342 --> 00:37:35,7.1156342
From the front page to the zeitgeist, Here's The Scoop from NBC News.

450
00:37:35,397.1156342 --> 00:37:37,607.1156342
Listen daily wherever you get your podcasts.

451
00:37:40,211.1156342 --> 00:37:40,521.1156342
Right.

452
00:37:40,571.1156342 --> 00:37:44,251.1156342
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.

453
00:37:44,261.1156342 --> 00:37:47,831.1156342
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

454
00:37:47,901.1156342 --> 00:37:52,21.1156342
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,

455
00:37:52,21.1156342 --> 00:37:54,301.1146342
and remember that's band with two Ns.

456
00:37:54,601.1156342 --> 00:38:05,561.1156342
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

457
00:38:05,561.1156342 --> 00:38:06,511.1156342
I think you'll like it.

458
00:38:06,931.1156342 --> 00:38:08,831.1156342
Yes, little quid pro quo.

459
00:38:09,431.1156342 --> 00:38:14,451.1146342
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

460
00:38:14,931.1156342 --> 00:38:19,521.1146342
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.

461
00:38:19,731.1156342 --> 00:38:24,401.1156342
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.

462
00:38:24,931.1156342 --> 00:38:26,511.1156342
And resist when it matters.