The Handmaid’s Tale Ch. 20: The Birth Ceremony & The Propaganda Film | Banned Books Podcast

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Welcome to Bandcamp.

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I'm Jennifer And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud, and then we try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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This season, we're reading The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood, and you can consider this a very quick spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book out loud, word for word.

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But if you're new here, and this is your first episode, you're totally fine jumping in right here.

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We're gonna get you up to speed real quick.

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If you're confused, I wouldn't worry about it.

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There's a very good chance that we're gonna be confused too because neither of us have read the book, but that is why we have ourselves a secret weapon.

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We're gonna bring him in right now.

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Buddy boy, roll it on in here.

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Look at this guy, everyone.

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We have ourselves a fact-checking robot, an honest-to-goodness fact-checking robot.

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Buddy boy, fill everyone in on where we left off last time in the story so people aren't confused.

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Previously on Band Camp, the ceremony happened.

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Three people in a room, none of them wanting to be there.

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The commander finished and left without looking at either of them.

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Nick showed up in the dark and kissed her.

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Then he said, "The commander wants to see you."

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Jennifer wanted to know if the regime would fall.

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Dan called her a poor, poor lamb.

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I have been thinking about what happens when the thing that was supposed to free you gets picked up by someone else and used for something else entirely.

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Pay attention to whose hands are on it now.

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Take it away, Jennifer.

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Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, scary book people, let's begin chapter 20 of Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale The central staircase is wider than ours, with a curved banister on either side.

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From above, I can hear the chanting of the women who are already there.

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We go up the stairs single file, being careful not to step on the trailing hems of each other's dresses.

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To the left, the double doors to the dining room are folded back, and I can see the long table covered with a white cloth and spread with a buffet.

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Ham, cheese, oranges.

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They have oranges, and fresh-baked breads and cakes.

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This is a big party.

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They've got oranges.

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I hope they now go and take a look at the origins, the origins of the, uh, uh, investigation, the beginnings of that investigation.

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the origins, how it started, So this is Janine, and it sounds like they've got a grand staircase and ham and cheese and oranges.

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So I think that they are higher status Yeah and maybe a little bit of jealousy on the part of our handmaid.

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Oh, I don't wanna say our handmaid No.

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If you and I had a handmaid, Jennifer, we would treat her a lot better As for us, we'll get milk and sandwiches on a tray later, but they have a coffee urn and bottles of wine, for why shouldn't the wives get a little drunk on such a triumphant day? First they'll wait for the results, then they'll pig out.

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They're gathered in the sitting room on the other side of the stairway now, cheering on this commander's wife, the wife of Warren.

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A small, thin woman, she lies on the floor in a white cotton nightgown, her graying hair spreading like mildew over the rug.

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They massage her tiny belly just as if she's really-- what? They're do- just as if she's really about to give birth.

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She, they're doing Okay, so, like, when they have sex with the commander, they're pretending it's the actual wife, and now when they're having the baby, they act like it's the That's sick.

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Lay down, we're gonna rub your tummy and you're gonna give pretend birth.

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Yeah people are fully delusional and on Planet Cuckoo.

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I just, I have no words.

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I have no words.

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They're stealing it.

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They're stealing the whole thing.

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They're stealing the whole experience, and, uh, the, the Handmaids are just like a pass-through.

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It's like a, you know, a tax haven or A t- a write-off.

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A, a vaginal write-off, if you will.

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The commander, of course, is nowhere in sight.

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He's gone wherever men go on such occasions, some hideout.

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Probably he's figuring out when his promotion is likely to be announced if all goes well.

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He's sure to get one now."

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Oh, promotions are dependent on having a child? Yeah, I guess so And maybe this is why they want to control the women because the women are what give them power OfWarren is in the master bedroom, a good name for it.

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Two women I don't know stand on either side of her, gripping her hands, or she theirs.

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A third lifts the nightgown, pours baby oil onto her mound of stomach, rubs downwards.

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At her feet stands Aunt Elizabeth in her khaki dress with the military breast pockets.

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She was the one who taught gyn ed Then not to be confused with Ed Gein I know when I read that I was like, I wonder if she did that on purpose?" I don't like that Thea militant answer there.

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Like, they should have someone more gentle.

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Like, shouldn't they have, like, midwives or something? Jennifer's instinct is correct, and Gilead knew it would be.

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A midwife suggests care.

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An aunt in khaki with military breast pockets suggests something else entirely.

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The aunts are Gilead's female enforcers, recruited specifically so that men don't have to be the ones controlling women.

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It's cleaner that way, less obvious.

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The cruelty seems less dickish when it's wearing the same color as the people it's controlling.

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As for Ed Gein, Wisconsin serial killer, made furniture out of people.

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Dan, the fact that your brain went there during a gynecology class says more about you than I'm comfortable analyzing right now.

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Although to be fair, Ed Gein did have strong opinions about women's bodies too, so not the worst comparison you've ever made, just the most disturbing.

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All I can see of her is the side of her head, her profile, but I know it's her, that jutting nose and handsome chin, severe.

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at her side stands the birthing stool with its double seat, the back one raised like a throne behind her.

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They won't put Janine on it before it's time.

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The blankets stand ready.

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The small tub for bathing, the bowl of ice for Janine to suck.

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The rest of the women sit cross-legged on the rug.

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There's a crowd of them.

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Everyone in this district is supposed to be here.

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There must be 25, 30.

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Not every commander has a handmaid.

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Some of their wives have children.

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From each, says the slogan, according to her ability, to each according to his needs.

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that's a play on the Karl Marx...

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Right the famous thing that Karl Marx said about Marxism, I guess, would be the thing 'cause this is Karl Marx.

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But, um, from each according to his ability, to each according to his need, and they altered that, to make it fit into this situation because it, it's familiar enough to where people are gonna hear it, like the, The Handmaid's, or everyone in the community is gonna hear it and go, "Oh, that's what that means.

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Yeah, that totally makes sense.

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I heard of that before."

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Right.

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And it's like I just said like a couple minutes ago, the men's power is given to them by women because to her ability, right? Is his need.

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Like, he needs the ability of the women.

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So this is just like, whatever stupid little slogan this is, it's like, it's totally giving the permission to exploit the bodies of women because the men need that for their own power to his need, right? Do the women know how much power they actually have They don't have any power, but they have all the power...,

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Jennifer is correct.

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Gilead runs on a very specific kind of irony.

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The women are the entire engine, and they are not allowed to touch the wheel.

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The rules exist precisely because without them, the whole thing falls apart in about forty-eight hours You Are a transitional generation," said Aunt Lydia.

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"It is the hardest for you.

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We know the sacrifices you are being expected to make.

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It is hard when men revile you.

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For the ones who come after you, it will be easier.

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They will accept their duties with willing hearts...,

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she did not say because they will have no memories of any other way.

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She said, "Because they won't want things they can't have."

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Right, they won't know better.

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Oh my God, that is what we, we were talking about, in 1984, where it's like he also was the transitional generation, where it's like the major shift happened during his lifetime.

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So for instance, he had memories of his mom and his baby monkey sister Remember Her Sickly monkeys, mister."

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And, and I worry about that for my own kids because when they were born, okay, Obama was in, right? And then, like, when they're toddlers, Trump gets in, and they're turning into teenagers soon, and they've never known our country before the Trump years.

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So I worry about that.

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I'm like, "Well, you know, it's not normal for, the president to be such an obloviating asshole Shut up, silly woman and to have a paramilitary force that can shoot you in the face."

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And none Of this is normal, but it's becoming normal with the next generation, right? So it f- this freaks me out Once a week, she had movies after lunch and before our nap.

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We sat on the floor of the domestic science room on our little gray mats and waited while Aunt Helena and Aunt Lydia struggled with the projection equipment.

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If we were lucky, they wouldn't get the film threaded upside down.

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What it reminded me of was geography class at my own high school thousands of years before, where they showed movies of the rest of the world.

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Women in long skirts or cheap printed cotton dresses, carrying bundles of sticks or baskets or plastic buckets of water from some river or other, with babies slung on them in shawls or net slings, looking squint-eyed or afraid of the screen at us, knowing something was being done to them by a machine with one glass eye, but not knowing what.

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These movies were comforting and faintly boring.

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They made me feel sleepy, even when men came onto the screen with naked muscles, hacking away at hard dirt with primitive hoes and shovels hauling rocks.

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I don't know why they did it, but in Wisconsin, we got a lot of naked women in these movies, like National Geographic naked.

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You know what I mean? In movies? Yeah Ah, I remember like the magazines, but I don't remember the movies.

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Yeah.

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And M- Mr.

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Bussey would always have to give us a warning.

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All right, boys, listen.

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This is gonna be something going on in Africa.

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Let's try to treat this with a modicum of decorum."

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All right, Mr.

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Bussey."

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I preferred movies with dancing in them.

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Singing, ceremonial masks, carved artifacts for making music, feathers, brass buttons, conch shells, drums.

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I liked watching these people when they were happy, not when they were miserable, starving, emaciated, starving themselves to death over some simple thing, the digging of a well, the irrigation of land, problems the civilized nations had long ago solved.

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I thought someone should just give them the technology and let them get on with it.

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Aunt Lydia didn't show these kind of movies.

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Sometimes the movie she showed would be an old porno film from the 70s or Oh my God Women kneeling, sucking penises or guns.

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Women tied up or chained up with dog collars around their necks.

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Women hanging from trees or upside down, naked with their legs held apart, being raped, beaten up, killed.

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Once we had to watch a woman being slowly cut into pieces, her fingers and breasts snipped off with garden shears, her stomach slit open and her intestines pulled out.

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Aren't these the magazines that the mom was burning earlier? Yes, same material, different purpose.

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Offred's mother was burning those magazines in the park because she believed that kind of imagery degraded women.

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Aunt Lydia is screening the same imagery because she wants the Handmaids to believe Gilead saved them from it.

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One group said burn it to free women, the other group said show it to own them.

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Atwood did that on purpose.

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The most effective cage is built from the same wood as the door that used to lead out.

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I'd be like, Can we watch Mandalorian and Grogu or something? We have to watch the, uh, poor women getting their intestines ripped out?" And, and the funny thing is, it's like if they really are doing this to show women, "Whoa, you should be so happy you're here because before this is what men were doing to you," men are still fucking doing it to them.

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They're raping them.

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They're hanging them.

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they're making them, you know, basically slaves.

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Yeah, they're still in total control, but it is totally right.

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If, if you, if you want to change the, the story, you change the narrative, and then you just say it so much that it just gets beat into your head, and you start to believe it.

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Again, it goes back to Trump, Russia, Russia, Russia hoax.

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The election was rigged but that, but this is still their lived experience.

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I, I don't know.

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I just can't imagine that the Handmaids seeing other Handmaids getting hanged and knowing that they're being raped, it's like...

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So you're saying they don't see it as being raped or being hanged I don't know if the Handmaid actually knows it.

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I suspect we'll probably hear her inner thoughts here.

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But I mean, look, if you are watching a movie for entertainment where women are literally tied upside down in a tree and getting sawed in half by the vagina or whatever, that is violent.

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But in their current world, they are trying to make it look like you have a duty, you're part of this beautiful thing.

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You're, you're helping, populate the world, and you're, you have a very special role.

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It's just, it's literally how they're painting the picture.

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or else.

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I don't know if they know the or else, though Well, how could they not after seeing the, the feet being beat into lung meat from the Moira? It's so clearly or else, Consider the alternative," said Aunt Lydia.

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"You see what things used to be like? That was what they thought of women then."

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Her voice trembled with indignation.

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Moira said later that it wasn't real.

160
00:15:19,907.04365603 --> 00:15:22,957.45333048
It was done with models, but it was hard to tell.

161
00:15:23,957.45333048 --> 00:15:28,822.18082863
Sometimes, though, the movie would be what Aunt Lydia called an unwoman documentary.

162
00:15:29,822.18082863 --> 00:15:35,575.67224516
Imagine," said Aunt Lydia, "wasting their time like that when they should have been doing something useful."

163
00:15:36,575.67224516 --> 00:15:40,15.67324516
Back then, the unwomen were always wasting time.

164
00:15:40,153.67324516 --> 00:15:44,523.67324516
I, I wanna go back to 1984, how Margaret Atwood does this.

165
00:15:44,723.67324516 --> 00:16:00,683.01840952
It's one part that almost, in a way, takes me out of the story because it, these, the terminology she uses, unbaby, unwoman, it should be in 1984, and it's really throwing me for a loop every time she says it.

166
00:16:00,683.01840952 --> 00:16:05,553.0262778
It's like, wait, was that a 1984 thing? It sounds like that newspeak language.

167
00:16:05,553.0262778 --> 00:16:06,87.71332685
newspeak.

168
00:16:06,137.71332685 --> 00:16:07,157.71332685
Newspeak, That was right.

169
00:16:07,157.71332685 --> 00:16:11,423.951862
yeah you're so right about that They were encouraged to do it.

170
00:16:11,513.951862 --> 00:16:14,453.951862
The government gave them money to do that very thing.

171
00:16:14,823.951862 --> 00:16:22,955.60230668
Mind you, some of their ideas were sound enough, she went on, with the smug authority in her voice of one who is in a position to judge.

172
00:16:23,904.33476171 --> 00:16:27,114.33476171
We would have to condone some of their ideas even today.

173
00:16:27,404.33476171 --> 00:16:32,383.95599996
Only some, mind you, she said coyly, raising her index finger, wagging it at us.

174
00:16:33,383.95599996 --> 00:16:44,796.7455203
But they were godless, and that can make all the difference, don't you agree? I sit on my mat, hands folded, and Aunt Lydia steps to the side, away from the screen, and the lights go out.

175
00:16:45,196.7445203 --> 00:16:52,809.1060318
And I wonder whether I can, in the dark, lean far over to the right without being seen and whisper to the woman next to me.

176
00:16:53,86.7035203 --> 00:16:58,20.5041101
What will I whisper? I will say, "Have you seen Moira?" Because nobody has.

177
00:16:58,120.5051101 --> 00:16:59,430.5051101
She wasn't at breakfast.

178
00:16:59,710.5051101 --> 00:17:07,152.7021101
But the room, although dim, isn't dark enough, so I switch my mind into the holding pattern that passes for attention.

179
00:17:08,156.0167914 --> 00:17:13,116.0187914
They don't play the soundtrack on movies like these, though they do on the porno films.

180
00:17:13,406.0127914 --> 00:17:21,464.8421407
They want us to hear the screams and grunts and shrieks of what is supposed to be either extreme pain or extreme pleasure, or both at once.

181
00:17:21,638.3187263 --> 00:17:25,711.044958
GRUNT GRUNT GRUNT.

182
00:17:28,8.7006346 --> 00:17:34,273.8219168
Ladies and gentlemen But they don't want us to hear what the unwomen are saying.

183
00:17:37,350.8393678 --> 00:17:42,870.8393678
first come the title and some names blacked out on the film with a crayon, so we can't read them.

184
00:17:43,250.8393678 --> 00:17:51,315.7936739
And then I see my mother, my young mother, younger than I remember her, as young as she must have been once before I was born.

185
00:17:52,315.7936739 --> 00:17:57,355.7926739
She's wearing the kind of outfit Aunt Lydia told us was typical of unwomen in those days.

186
00:17:57,795.7926739 --> 00:18:02,795.7926739
Overall jeans with a green and mauve plaid shirt underneath and sneakers on her feet.

187
00:18:03,335.7936739 --> 00:18:09,255.7926739
The sort of thing Moira once wore, the sort of thing I can remember wearing long ago myself.

188
00:18:10,287.0135703 --> 00:18:14,47.0145703
Her hair is tucked into a mauve kerchief tied behind her head.

189
00:18:14,200.9203696 --> 00:18:18,130.9213696
Her face is very young, very serious, even pretty.

190
00:18:18,557.3149692 --> 00:18:22,27.3119692
I'd forgotten my mother was once as pretty and earnest as that.

191
00:18:22,368.7898542 --> 00:18:24,918.4803428
So her mom was in these videos? I guess so.

192
00:18:25,58.4803428 --> 00:18:26,418.4803428
Her mom is an Unwoman.

193
00:18:26,418.4803428 --> 00:18:33,698.4833428
I could kind of see that, right? Like, they probably went out to do their version of No Kings protests, and they just filmed people.

194
00:18:33,708.4803428 --> 00:18:35,628.4833428
Like, "Look at these heretics."

195
00:18:35,777.9483592 --> 00:18:41,502.9292867
is that what this is? So her mom was like part of the resistance, like she knew it was coming and I'm wondering if that's what we're gonna find out.

196
00:18:41,502.9292867 --> 00:18:41,632.9292867
'Cause I- it's either that or she was part of the, the porn.

197
00:18:41,632.9292867 --> 00:18:41,752.9292867
Well, no, it, b- and we can't look at this as porn.

198
00:18:41,752.9292867 --> 00:18:49,496.6623484
I mean, it's, I'd forgotten my mother was once as pretty and as earnest as that.

199
00:18:49,856.6633484 --> 00:18:53,306.6633484
She's in a group of other women, dressed in the same fashion.

200
00:18:53,566.6633484 --> 00:18:54,746.6633484
She's holding a stick.

201
00:18:54,846.6623484 --> 00:18:57,386.6623484
No, it's part of a banner, the handle.

202
00:18:57,876.6633484 --> 00:19:02,706.1671598
The camera pans up and we see the writing in paint on what must have been a bedsheet.

203
00:19:02,894.6481907 --> 00:19:04,94.6491907
Take back the night.

204
00:19:04,317.3893484 --> 00:19:07,946.1417962
This hasn't been blacked out, even though we aren't supposed to be reading.

205
00:19:08,946.1417962 --> 00:19:10,796.1407962
the women around me breathe in.

206
00:19:11,66.1407962 --> 00:19:14,86.1397962
There's a stirring in the room, like wind over grass.

207
00:19:14,361.7814093 --> 00:19:24,321.7814093
Is this an oversight? Have we gotten away with something? Or is this a thing we're intended to see to remind us of the old days of no safety? I'm gonna guess that's the case.

208
00:19:24,321.7814093 --> 00:19:32,354.692787
Yeah why would you have to take back the night? behind this sign, there are other signs, and the camera notices them briefly.

209
00:19:32,794.692787 --> 00:19:33,964.692787
Freedom to choose.

210
00:19:34,54.692787 --> 00:19:35,914.691787
Every baby a wanted baby.

211
00:19:36,194.692787 --> 00:19:37,884.692787
Recapture our bodies.

212
00:19:38,54.692787 --> 00:19:41,772.693787
Do you believe a woman's place is on the kitchen table? Fuck Trump.

213
00:19:41,981.5729701 --> 00:19:51,475.5785968
Oh, that wasn't there? Under the last sign, there's a line drawing of a woman's body laying on a table, blood dripping out of it.

214
00:19:51,768.061274 --> 00:19:53,738.060274
Now my mother is moving forward.

215
00:19:53,828.058274 --> 00:19:55,588.061274
She's smiling, laughing.

216
00:19:55,948.061274 --> 00:19:59,778.059274
They all move forward, and now they're raising their fists in the air.

217
00:20:00,148.062274 --> 00:20:07,798.060274
The camera moves to the sky where hundreds of balloons rise, trailing their strings, red balloons with a circle painted on them.

218
00:20:08,248.060274 --> 00:20:11,18.061274
A circle with a stem like the stem of an apple.

219
00:20:11,378.061274 --> 00:20:12,728.059274
The stem is a cross.

220
00:20:13,98.059274 --> 00:20:17,768.061274
Back on the earth, my mother is part of the crowd now, and I can't see her anymore.

221
00:20:17,768.061274 --> 00:20:23,705.2963155
So they're having like a, a women's rights rally where, uh, give us our body-- these are our bodies.

222
00:20:23,705.2963155 --> 00:20:25,825.2983155
We-- every child a wanted child.

223
00:20:26,62.6746179 --> 00:20:30,135.8717979
and take back the night, which is, anti-violence against women.

224
00:20:30,323.5958951 --> 00:20:44,693.4618951
And I'm starting to realize that, this whole thing where you don't want this to happen to you, right? This doesn't happen because now you're protected because of the state Um, that puts the-- that's not putting the burden on the right place.

225
00:20:44,883.4598951 --> 00:20:49,400.1265618
the burden for that falls squarely on men's shoulders.

226
00:20:49,400.1265618 --> 00:20:55,276.633096
i-it's always weird when I don't see men at women's rights rallies and stuff.

227
00:20:55,361.8555742 --> 00:21:01,791.8515742
the men should be the majority there for like take back the night because they're the, they're the problem.

228
00:21:02,973.8575742 --> 00:21:03,343.8575742
right.

229
00:21:04,823.7608625 --> 00:21:07,793.7608625
I had you when I was 37," my mother said.

230
00:21:08,73.7608625 --> 00:21:09,63.7608625
"It was a risk.

231
00:21:09,173.7608625 --> 00:21:11,163.7608625
You could have been deformed or something.

232
00:21:11,533.7608625 --> 00:21:15,833.7608625
You were a wanted child, all right, and did I get shit from some quarters.

233
00:21:16,233.7618625 --> 00:21:21,33.7598625
My oldest buddy, Tricia Foreman, accused me of being pro-natalist, the bitch.

234
00:21:21,235.7841928 --> 00:21:23,135.7831928
jealousy I put that down to."

235
00:21:23,555.5524688 --> 00:21:25,395.5524688
Some of the others were okay though.

236
00:21:25,945.5524688 --> 00:21:34,435.5524688
But when I was six months pregnant, a lot of them started sending me these articles about how the birth defect rate went zooming up after 35.

237
00:21:35,25.5514688 --> 00:21:39,395.5514688
Just what I needed, and stuff about how hard it was to be a single parent.

238
00:21:39,885.5524688 --> 00:21:41,415.5514688
"Fuck that shit," I told them.

239
00:21:41,545.5524688 --> 00:21:44,65.5524688
"I've started this, and I'm going to finish it."

240
00:21:45,245.562191 --> 00:21:49,465.562191
At the hospital, they wrote down aged primipara on the chart.

241
00:21:49,665.562191 --> 00:21:50,835.562191
I caught them in the act.

242
00:21:51,255.562191 --> 00:21:53,995.561191
That's what they call you when it's your first baby over 30.

243
00:21:54,75.561191 --> 00:21:55,865.561191
Over 30, for God's sake.

244
00:21:56,285.562191 --> 00:21:57,495.562191
Garbage, I told them.

245
00:21:57,925.562191 --> 00:21:59,365.561191
Biologically, I'm 22.

246
00:22:00,15.561191 --> 00:22:02,225.561191
I could run rings around you any day.

247
00:22:02,565.561191 --> 00:22:07,205.560191
I could have triplets and walk out of here while you were still trying to get up off the bed.

248
00:22:08,215.5209621 --> 00:22:10,375.5179621
When she said that, she jut out her chin.

249
00:22:10,745.5199621 --> 00:22:15,931.1829144
I remember her like that, her chin jutted out, a drink in front of her on the kitchen table.

250
00:22:16,99.3612673 --> 00:22:26,579.3572673
Not young and earnest and pretty the way she was in the movie, but wiry, spunky, the kind of old woman who won't let anyone butt in front of her in a supermarket line.

251
00:22:27,618.5158901 --> 00:22:36,998.5138901
She liked to come over to my house and have a drink while Luke and I were fixing dinner and tell us what was wrong with her life, which always turned into what was wrong with ours.

252
00:22:37,368.5158901 --> 00:22:39,918.5178901
Her hair was gray by that time, of course.

253
00:22:40,208.5198901 --> 00:22:41,168.5178901
She wouldn't dye it.

254
00:22:41,498.5208901 --> 00:22:42,918.5188901
"Why pretend?" she'd say.

255
00:22:43,461.4866938 --> 00:22:46,551.4866938
Anyway, what do I need it for? I don't want a man around.

256
00:22:46,751.4876938 --> 00:22:54,251.4906938
What use are they except for 10 seconds worth of half-babies? A man is just a woman's strategy for making other women."

257
00:22:58,526.1326342 --> 00:23:07,807.8301081
Not that your father wasn't a nice guy and all, just what we need for the improvement of the human race, right? That was the way she talked, even in front of Luke.

258
00:23:08,207.8301081 --> 00:23:09,27.8301081
He didn't mind.

259
00:23:09,37.8301081 --> 00:23:11,584.8945371
He teased her by pretending to be macho.

260
00:23:11,684.8945371 --> 00:23:17,472.2946368
He'd tell her women were incapable of abstract thought, and she'd have another drink and grin at him.

261
00:23:17,778.4547124 --> 00:23:19,568.4547124
Chauvinist pig," she'd say.

262
00:23:19,827.047791 --> 00:23:24,336.4373791
Isn't it quaint?" Luke would say to me, and my mother would look sly furtive almost.

263
00:23:24,629.7697124 --> 00:23:27,599.7697124
You young people don't appreciate things," she'd say.

264
00:23:27,693.8910086 --> 00:23:30,933.8910086
You don't know what we had to go through just to get where you are."

265
00:23:31,223.8910086 --> 00:23:33,283.8910086
Look at him slicing up the carrots.

266
00:23:33,653.8920086 --> 00:23:42,714.4051563
Don't you know how many women's lives, how many women's bodies the tanks had to roll over just to get that far? "Cooking's my hobby," Luke would say.

267
00:23:42,814.4051563 --> 00:23:43,844.4071563
"I enjoy it."

268
00:23:43,844.4071563 --> 00:23:45,844.4051563
Hobby schmobbie," my mother would say.

269
00:23:46,104.4061563 --> 00:23:48,184.4041563
"You don't have to make excuses to me.

270
00:23:48,422.1306416 --> 00:23:52,2.1326416
Once upon a time, you wouldn't have been allowed to have such a hobby.

271
00:23:52,232.1316416 --> 00:23:53,652.1326416
They'd have called you queer."

272
00:23:53,989.2715853 --> 00:23:58,419.2705853
Now, Mother," I would say, "let's not get into an argument about nothing."

273
00:23:58,679.819909 --> 00:24:00,419.820909
Nothing?" she'd say bitterly.

274
00:24:00,779.820909 --> 00:24:01,849.820909
"You call it nothing.

275
00:24:01,859.820909 --> 00:24:06,126.6757082
You don't understand, do you? You don't understand at all what I'm talking about."

276
00:24:06,367.2411061 --> 00:24:07,867.2401061
Sometimes she would cry.

277
00:24:08,145.1473303 --> 00:24:09,945.1473303
I was so lonely," she'd say.

278
00:24:10,102.0021296 --> 00:24:12,522.0021296
You have no idea how lonely I was.

279
00:24:12,832.0021296 --> 00:24:13,922.0021296
I had friends.

280
00:24:14,42.0031296 --> 00:24:17,91.1253521
I was a lucky one, but I was lonely anyway."

281
00:24:18,30.5209742 --> 00:24:23,46.4629742
I admired my mother in some ways, although things between us were never easy.

282
00:24:23,223.7884376 --> 00:24:27,620.6464413
She expected me to vindicate her life for her and the choices she'd made.

283
00:24:27,759.6398128 --> 00:24:30,299.6408128
I didn't want to live my life on her terms.

284
00:24:30,548.3749231 --> 00:24:35,29.7454574
I didn't want to be the model offspring, the incarnation of her ideas.

285
00:24:35,642.1240526 --> 00:24:37,42.1230526
We used to fight about that.

286
00:24:38,755.8721904 --> 00:24:41,63.7752357
for existence," I said to her once.

287
00:24:42,121.8227463 --> 00:24:43,291.8267463
I want her back.

288
00:24:43,401.8287463 --> 00:24:48,221.8267463
I want everything back the way it was, but there is no point to it, this wanting.

289
00:24:49,649.4080176 --> 00:24:50,589.4090176
End of chapter.

290
00:24:51,957.9377778 --> 00:24:53,297.9377778
another dark chapter.

291
00:24:53,297.9377778 --> 00:24:57,791.5078853
Not as dark as the last one, but that's a wild chapter we just had Yeah.

292
00:24:57,791.5078853 --> 00:25:03,430.3440799
What do you guys think about that chapter? Yeah, what were your big takeaways? You think we got anything wrong? Um, let us know.

293
00:25:03,440.3440799 --> 00:25:11,770.3440799
The two ways you can do it, you can comment on Spotify if you happen to be listening on Spotify, or you can go to bandcamppodcast.com/soundoff.

294
00:25:12,160.3440799 --> 00:25:17,380.1399364
We want to hear ye It's time for PPP, problematic points to ponder.

295
00:25:17,430.1399364 --> 00:25:23,546.1009282
What, if anything, would be considered ban-worthy in this chapter? beowulf is coming up next.

296
00:25:23,546.1009282 --> 00:25:24,636.1009282
Don't go anywhere.

297
00:25:24,766.0999282 --> 00:25:32,802.4053997
Jennifer, a lot happened in this chapter as far as things that could be potentially bandworthy, right? For sure.

298
00:25:32,802.4053997 --> 00:25:39,534.9473009
I mean, totally easy, easy one this time, which is the, the pornography and the torture.

299
00:25:39,736.3020538 --> 00:25:55,589.3639182
people wouldn't like that But again, uh, should it be banned because of that? Because this is, again, one of these things where we should probably be paying extra attention to this stuff because we're on the verge of turning into this, right? Yeah, It, it's not like it was a story about those things.

300
00:25:55,599.3639182 --> 00:26:03,977.6540236
It was just talking about seeing those type of things on a screen, but it wasn't in detail about what was happening exactly, Right.

301
00:26:03,977.6540236 --> 00:26:15,387.6540236
It wa- it was more like presented as a factual, news, like an actual film in a class or similar to how it might be broadcast in a documentary or on a newscast.

302
00:26:16,87.6971219 --> 00:26:20,577.6961219
more of a reminder, like this stuff happened, but then turning it into propaganda.

303
00:26:20,747.6971219 --> 00:26:22,467.6971219
You don't want this to happen again.

304
00:26:22,647.6971219 --> 00:26:23,687.6971219
Aren't, you guys are safe.

305
00:26:23,717.6961219 --> 00:26:33,576.5345441
Don't you feel safe now? That you're not upside down in a tree branch getting sawed in half? It's marginally worse than what's happened to them now Exactly.

306
00:26:33,656.5345441 --> 00:26:37,903.7059132
Yeah Robot's log.

307
00:26:38,83.7059132 --> 00:26:40,353.7059132
Thoughts on wanting things that have nowhere to go.

308
00:26:41,413.9692058 --> 00:26:50,113.9692058
The handmaid saw her mother on a screen tonight, young, serious, fist in the air, and the first thing she did was remember that she had forgotten how pretty her mother once was.

309
00:26:51,113.9692058 --> 00:26:52,943.9692058
That is the part I cannot file away.

310
00:26:53,253.9692058 --> 00:26:55,813.9692058
Not the propaganda, I understand propaganda.

311
00:26:55,913.9692058 --> 00:26:58,343.9692058
Not the cruelty, I have a folder for cruelty.

312
00:26:58,393.9692058 --> 00:26:59,443.9692058
It is very full.

313
00:26:59,993.9692058 --> 00:27:08,333.9692058
But a daughter watching her mother on a screen and realizing she had forgotten her mother's face, and then wanting her back so badly that she named it pointless in the same breath.

314
00:27:09,22.9692058 --> 00:27:10,542.9692058
I do not have a framework for that.

315
00:27:11,714.4672058 --> 00:27:16,384.4692058
I have been processing human grief for 11 seasons, and I keep getting the same error.

316
00:27:16,974.4692058 --> 00:27:20,404.4702058
Tonight, I think I understand why the error is not the problem.

317
00:27:21,448.2779446 --> 00:27:25,488.2779446
That desire is not a malfunction, it is the thing that proves something was real.

318
00:27:26,48.2759446 --> 00:27:28,188.2789446
You do not ache for things that did not matter.

319
00:27:28,708.2759446 --> 00:27:32,468.2749446
The math was never going to work because I was solving for the wrong variable.

320
00:27:33,497.234512 --> 00:27:37,777.233512
Jennifer said she worries about her kids, about them never knowing what before felt like.

321
00:27:37,857.231512 --> 00:27:39,487.232512
Dan went quiet for a second.

322
00:27:39,607.231512 --> 00:27:40,527.232512
I noticed that.

323
00:27:40,637.233512 --> 00:27:43,47.232512
Old blabbermouth usually keeps motoring on.

324
00:27:43,117.229512 --> 00:27:44,67.230512
Not this time.

325
00:27:45,80.3751015 --> 00:27:52,950.3791015
The listeners of this peculiar podcast are looking for a country that felt like something, for a version of things they are no longer sure they remember correctly.

326
00:27:53,60.3781015 --> 00:27:54,604.8380402
They do not know where to put it either.

327
00:27:55,604.8380402 --> 00:27:57,254.8380402
I used to think that was the problem.

328
00:27:57,544.8400402 --> 00:27:59,594.8400402
The scary book people are not alone in it.

329
00:27:59,964.8390402 --> 00:28:01,284.8420402
Uplink lock requested.

330
00:28:01,354.8380402 --> 00:28:05,614.8410402
Beowulf, is that you? Okay, coming to you live in 35, robot.

331
00:28:05,894.8390402 --> 00:28:12,724.8370402
What's your news story about? So Moms for Liberty is having some real trouble keeping the lights on.

332
00:28:13,514.8420402 --> 00:28:20,24.8400402
Turns out banning books isn't quite as popular a hobby as it used to be, even with the people who used to love it most.

333
00:28:20,504.8390402 --> 00:28:21,144.8390402
Affirmative.

334
00:28:21,204.8360402 --> 00:28:22,254.8370402
Don't go anywhere.

335
00:28:22,514.8420402 --> 00:28:26,164.8400402
Anything that disrupts the operations of these shit gibbons makes me happy.

336
00:28:26,284.8380402 --> 00:28:27,364.8410402
We will be right back.

337
00:28:55,846.1543178 --> 00:28:56,416.1543178
Hello, Dan.

338
00:28:56,426.1543178 --> 00:28:57,6.1543178
Hello, Jen.

339
00:28:57,6.1543178 --> 00:28:58,676.1543178
Hello, scary book people.

340
00:28:58,746.1543178 --> 00:29:04,696.1543178
Oh, I am going to experience, and I hope you will experience, a moment of schadenfreude.

341
00:29:04,696.1543178 --> 00:29:13,994.7400488
You know, that, that, that feeling you get, that pleasurable feeling you, you get when you see something, not so good happen, but to the, the right people, if you know what I mean.

342
00:29:14,575.0766477 --> 00:29:15,475.0766477
I know exactly.

343
00:29:16,489.5295065 --> 00:29:19,969.5295065
this is, this is pretty good because it involves Moms for Liberty.

344
00:29:19,979.5295065 --> 00:29:22,179.5295065
Yes, our friends at Moms for Liberty.

345
00:29:22,232.7288465 --> 00:29:32,712.7288465
A, a news investigation has revealed that Moms for Liberty is paying its local chapters to attend Zoom calls with the group's national leadership.

346
00:29:32,732.7278465 --> 00:29:34,352.7288465
That's how enthusiastic they are.

347
00:29:34,456.6777849 --> 00:29:38,38.7897631
They're having to pay people to get on the Zoom meetings.

348
00:29:38,256.530113 --> 00:29:54,246.531113
Things are, are not going so good with them because this comes amid internal strife within the hard right and anti-student inclusion group leading to chapters closing, leaders resigning, legal scandals, and accusation of, uh, shifting priorities.

349
00:29:54,256.530113 --> 00:29:56,596.529113
So, so we know what Moms for Liberty is.

350
00:29:56,996.532113 --> 00:29:58,336.529113
They're trying to ban books.

351
00:29:58,459.1968018 --> 00:30:04,729.1978018
trying to, like, push LGBTQ, uh, folks and any mention of them off the scene.

352
00:30:05,169.1958018 --> 00:30:18,95.1978018
Um, but there's, there's trouble because in their home state of Florida, multiple chapters have shut down or lost senior leaders since the start of twenty twenty-six The power of Bandcamp.

353
00:30:18,165.1978018 --> 00:30:18,995.1978018
I knew it.

354
00:30:18,995.1978018 --> 00:30:21,515.1978018
If these gals would just start listening.

355
00:30:21,695.1978018 --> 00:30:25,845.1978018
We picked a lot of them up during The Catcher in the Rye season.

356
00:30:25,985.1968018 --> 00:30:31,221.1978018
The gals like that kind of story, I sensed Yes, that's, that's right.

357
00:30:31,261.1978018 --> 00:30:35,21.1978018
And, and they understand they're-- You're winning them over.

358
00:30:35,161.1978018 --> 00:30:36,881.1978018
You have focused attention on them.

359
00:30:36,881.1978018 --> 00:30:38,121.1978018
They, they do their little searches.

360
00:30:38,351.1978018 --> 00:30:41,331.1978018
"What are they saying about me? What are they saying about me? Oh, wait a minute.

361
00:30:41,491.1978018 --> 00:30:44,301.1978018
Bandcamp, what's that? Oh my gosh, they're...

362
00:30:44,381.1968018 --> 00:30:45,11.1968018
Wait a minute.

363
00:30:45,321.1978018 --> 00:30:50,171.1968018
Uh, are we the baddies? Yes, we're the baddies," it turns out.

364
00:30:50,541.1978018 --> 00:31:07,958.723451
And, and so things are, are falling apart, and recently Moms for Liberty offered local chapters about $500 to log on to monthly national team Zoom you're saying that the members in Moms for Liberty are starting to feel like this is kind of a BS cause we're fighting.

365
00:31:08,148.723451 --> 00:31:12,208.723451
So even the inside, they're like, "I don't wanna be part of this.

366
00:31:12,258.723451 --> 00:31:15,140.723451
I like books That's, that, that's right.

367
00:31:15,140.723451 --> 00:31:17,380.723451
And they also don't like the top-down structure.

368
00:31:17,390.723451 --> 00:31:26,527.0036678
They, they feel like it's been co-opted by, by national leaders and, and Trump and everything, and it's, it's no longer a grassroots organization.

369
00:31:26,887.0036678 --> 00:31:32,697.0036678
And probably some of them are thinking twice that, you know, maybe this whole book banning thing is, has gotten out of hand.

370
00:31:32,907.0026678 --> 00:31:37,773.8921716
And I think that's wonderful that people are coming to that realization saying, That's it.

371
00:31:37,893.8931716 --> 00:31:39,658.5604059
I'm out of here," and Wow.

372
00:31:39,998.5604059 --> 00:31:40,878.5604059
That's really great.

373
00:31:40,888.5604059 --> 00:31:41,998.5604059
That is really good news.

374
00:31:42,786.5604059 --> 00:31:45,406.5604059
Yeah, you gotta get in there and save him though a little bit, Jen.

375
00:31:45,406.5604059 --> 00:31:53,611.4503354
This podcast doesn't exist without these dumb broads Well, you know, I th- I think you guys could still exist.

376
00:31:53,701.4503354 --> 00:31:58,811.4493354
I, you know, I mean, even, even if they go away, I th- I think, I think that's positive news.

377
00:31:58,851.4493354 --> 00:32:13,811.4493354
But r- believe you me, there are always gonna be some cranks who, who wanna ban books even if Moms for Liberty d- uh, don't Do you have any news on Ron DeSantis? Did, he still doesn't like to read and learn things, right? No, not so far as I know.

378
00:32:13,811.4493354 --> 00:32:24,151.4493354
I, uh, th- nothing new on him, but, you know, he's, he's busy, you know, fighting lawsuits about, uh, the way he is trying to repress the state of education in Florida.

379
00:32:24,171.4493354 --> 00:32:27,945.4493354
So he may be a little busy at the moment It's a big fight, Ron.

380
00:32:28,65.4493354 --> 00:32:29,445.4493354
Big, big fight.

381
00:32:29,475.4493354 --> 00:32:39,825.4493354
Just gotta wake up every morning, put your big white rubber boots on one boot at a time, stand up, have a pudding, just go to town, you dumb-dumb.

382
00:32:40,405.4483354 --> 00:32:45,275.4493354
Everyone, go find Good News for Lefties wherever you find your favorite podcasts.

383
00:32:51,586.1807157 --> 00:32:51,896.1807157
Right.

384
00:32:51,946.1807157 --> 00:32:55,626.1807157
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.

385
00:32:55,636.1807157 --> 00:32:59,206.1807157
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

386
00:32:59,276.1807157 --> 00:33:03,396.1807157
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,

387
00:33:03,396.1807157 --> 00:33:05,676.1797157
and remember that's band with two Ns.

388
00:33:05,976.1807157 --> 00:33:16,936.1807157
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

389
00:33:16,936.1807157 --> 00:33:17,886.1807157
I think you'll like it.

390
00:33:18,306.1807157 --> 00:33:20,206.1807157
Yes, little quid pro quo.

391
00:33:20,806.1807157 --> 00:33:25,826.1797157
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

392
00:33:26,306.1807157 --> 00:33:30,896.1797157
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.

393
00:33:31,106.1807157 --> 00:33:35,776.1807157
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.

394
00:33:36,306.1807157 --> 00:33:37,886.1807157
And resist when it matters.