The Handmaid’s Tale Chapter 13: Pig Balls, Pigeons, and the Girl Who Stopped Fighting | Why Books Get Banned

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Welcome to Bandcamp.

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I'm Jennifer And I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read banned books out loud and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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This season, we are reading The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood, and you can consider this a really quick spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book out loud word for word.

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But if you're new here, you can jump in right here.

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You don't have to worry about feeling like you're walking into the middle of a movie.

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You're gonna be fine.

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We're gonna get you up to speed fast with our secret weapon.

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More on him in, like, two seconds.

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The other thing you should know, if you do feel confused, don't worry.

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There's a really good chance that we're gonna feel confused too because we've never read the book either.

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That's what kind of makes Banned Camp different.

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Now, let's bring in our secret weapon.

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We have ourselves a fact-checking robot.

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He's a legit robot.

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Got him at a Goodwill.

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Here he comes.

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Buddy boy, roll it in.

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Buddy boy, before Jennifer starts reading, why don't you fill everyone in on where we left off last time in The Handmaid's Tale? Previously on Band Camp, the handmaid went to the gynecologist.

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Apparently they need to make sure the equipment is working before the commander gets his turn.

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Then the doctor offered to impregnate her right there on the table, because the commander probably can't do the job himself.

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She thought about it and said, "Yeah, no, maybe next month."

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Then she went home and sat in a bathtub and saw her baby daughter again.

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Dan, of course, thought she was daydreaming about taking a bath with her mom.

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Jennifer asked why her mother would smell like baby powder and urine.

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I have 11 seasons of these moments on file, and somehow they keep getting worse.

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Some lessons take years to learn, some only take a week.

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Take it away, Jennifer Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, scary book people, let's begin chapter 13 of Margaret Atwood's The Handmaid's Tale.

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"There's time to spare.

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This is one of the things I wasn't prepared for, the amount of unfilled time, the long parenthesis of nothing."

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I remember walking in art galleries through the 19th century, the obsession they had with the harems.

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Dozens of paintings of harems, fat women lolling on divan, d- divans? Divans? Devon? I've never lolled on a divan, so I wouldn't know.

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You'd be good at it Eh, not really my thing.

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Fat women lolling on divans, turbans on their heads or velvet caps, being fanned with peacock tails, a eunuch in the background standing guard.

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Studies of sedentary flesh painted by men who've never been there I wouldn't mind that life.

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I'm assuming a divan is some kind of couch.

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I wouldn't mind that.

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S- somebody fanning me with peacock tails,...

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That'll be nice.

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I'd love it sounds pleasant.

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Getting a grape.

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That's when you really know you made it, when people are feeding you grapes These pictures were supposed to be erotic, and I thought they were at the time, but I see now what they were really about.

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they were paintings about suspended animation, about objects not in use.

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They were paintings about boredom But maybe boredom is erotic when women do it for men I wait, washed, brushed, fed like a prize pig.

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Sometime in the '80s, they invented pig balls for pigs who were being fattened in pens.

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Pig balls were large colored balls.

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What? Okay, I don't know.

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Pigs rolled them around with their snouts.

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The pig marketers said this improved their muscle tone.

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The pigs were curious.

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They liked to have something to think about.

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Never heard of that.

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Would be nice now for p- now- nowadays, pigs are like, they're just laying in like a coffin basically.

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it should be a law that the pigs bare minimum have pig balls to play with Right.

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Right.

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And now it's like they're doing that with the Save the Bacon Act they're trying to, like, push in with some other bill where it's they wanna undo all the welfare laws for, for animals in states that enacted the welfare laws for, for animals.

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Yeah, so now all these farmers that, you know, are complying with the animal welfare laws, now they are gonna be undercut by giant corporations that are just gonna house all the an- I- if it passes, which I hope it doesn't, I read about that in Introduction to Psychology.

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That and the chapter on caged rats who'd give themselves electric shocks for something to do.

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And the one on the pigeons trained to peck a button which made a grain of corn appear.

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Three groups of them.

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The first got one grain per peck.

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the second one grain every other peck.

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The third was random.

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When the man in charge cut off the grain, the first group gave up quite soon.

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The second group gave up a little later, and the third group never gave up.

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They'd peck themselves to death rather than quit Who knew what worked? I wish I had a pig ball.

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Absolutely.

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It would make being a handmaid a lot better if they had pig balls She is so bored.

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I, I hate being bored.

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I hate it.

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people hate it.

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That's why, they're constantly scrolling or...

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Like, people want to look at things all the time.

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They want information.

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Their brain needs to be stimulated all the time.

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I lie down on the braided rug.

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"You can always practice," said Aunt Lydia.

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"Several sessions a day fitted into your daily routine.

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Arms at the sides, knees bent, lift the pelvis, roll the backbone down, tuck."

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Again, is she doing Pilates? What the heck's going on here? I don't think she is, sadly.

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I think that Pilates would be great for her.

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I think they're making her do, pelvic exercises is that what it's called? Feldenkrais? I don't even...

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Robot, what is Feldenkrais? I know I've heard of it though No, you didn't hear of it, Jennifer, because Feldenkrais is not a pelvic exercise.

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It's not even a word.

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There is a 78.7447%

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chance you are thinking of Kegel exercises, named after Arnold Kegel, a gynecologist from the 1940s.

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Pelvic floor exercises.

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The Handmaid is doing them on the floor because it's one of the only things left that's actually hers.

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Nobody can supervise a muscle contraction, yet Oh my God.

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We do that in what used to be the domestic science room, cleared now of sewing machines and washer dryers.

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In unison, lying on little Japanese mats, a tape playing, Les Sylphides Les Sylphides.

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1909 ballet.

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No plot, just Chopin piano pieces and women in white floating around like ghosts.

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The Red Center played it during pelvic exercises, training women to associate calm, pretty music with their bodies being controlled.

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Even the music is doing propaganda work.

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That's what I hear now in my head as I lift, tilt, breathe.

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Behind my closed eyes, thin white dancers flit gracefully among the trees, their legs fluttering like the wings of held birds.

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In the afternoons, we lay on our beds for an hour in the gymnasium between 3:00 and 4:00.

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They said it was a period of rest and meditation.

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I thought then they did it because they wanted some time off themselves from teaching us, and I know the aunts not on duty went off to the teachers' room for a cup of coffee But now I think that the rest also was practice.

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They were giving us a chance to get used to blank time.

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Hmm ugh, this whole thing is just so creepy, 'cause th- they don't have any time to themselves.

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A catnap," Aunt Lydia called it, in her coy way.

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The strange thing is, we needed a rest.

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Many of us went to sleep.

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We were tired there a lot of the time.

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We were on some kind of pill or drug, I think.

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They put it in the food to keep us calm.

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So they're drugged too.

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I didn't even realize that.

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Soma They're turning in- yeah, well, oh, they're turning them into zombies.

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Like you said, it's, like, just zombie uterus.

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That's all they are at this point Yeah.

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I, I keep thinking that they had to drug these people in order to make it work because, like, there's no way a government would just, you know, take over and everyone goes along with it, right? I was surprised that Roe v.

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Wade was overturned and nothing happened.

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It happened overnight, I actually went into a three-hour psychosis where I thought I was in hell.

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It's like I must have died and I'm in hell.

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I did something bad.

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cause it didn't seem real.

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I'm like how can this even happen? But I guess it did, unless I'm s- really in hell right now, and like it's just ongoing.

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there's no revolt.

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on some level, I want the men to also join us, because they have more power.

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It's just realistic.

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They have more power.

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So I want them to join us...,

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what can I do for you, Jennifer? maybe people don't need to be drugged, you know, they just need to accept, what's happening.

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But maybe we weren't drugged.

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Maybe it was the place itself.

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After the first shock, after you'd come to terms, it was better to be lethargic.

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You could tell yourself you were saving up your strength.

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I must have been there three weeks when Moira came.

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she was brought into the gymnasium by two of the aunts in the usual way while we were having our nap.

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She still had her clothes on, jeans and a blue sweatshirt.

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Her hair was short.

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She defied fashion as usual, so I recognized her at once.

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I'm worried about what's gonna happen to Moira.

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I know they're gonna make an example of her, aren't they? She saw me too, but she turned away.

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She already knew what was safe.

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There was a bruise on her left cheek turning purple.

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The aunts took her to a vacant bed where the red dress was already laid out.

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She undressed, began to dress again in silence, the aunt standing at the end of the bed, the rest of us watching from inside her slitted eyes.

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As she bent over, I could see the knobs on her spine.

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I couldn't talk to her for several days.

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We looked only, small glances, like sips.

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Friendships were suspicious, we knew it.

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we avoided each other during mealtime lineups in the cafeteria and in the halls between classes.

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But on the fourth day, she was beside me during the walk, two by two around the football field.

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We weren't given the white wings until we graduated.

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We had only the veils, so we could talk as long as we did it quietly and didn't turn to look at one another.

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They kinda are treating the white veils like, um, karate.

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Yeah, like you didn't get your belt yet The aunts walked at the head of the line and at the end, so the only danger was from the others.

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Some were believers and might report us.

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This is a loony bin," Moira said.

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I'm so glad to see you," I said.

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Where can we talk?" said Moira.

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Washroom," I said.

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"Watch the clock.

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End stall 2:30."

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That was all we said.

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It makes me feel safer that Moira is here.

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We can go to the washroom if we put our hands up, though there's a limit to how many times a day.

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They mark it down on a chart.

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I watch the clock, electric and round, at the front over the green blackboard.

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2:30 comes during testifying Aunt Helena is there as well as Aunt Lydia because testifying is special.

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Aunt Helena is fat.

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She once headed a Weight Watchers franchise operation in Iowa.

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She's good at testifying It's Janine telling about how she was gang raped at 14 and had an abortion.

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She told the same story last week.

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She seemed almost proud of it while she was telling it.

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It may not even be true.

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At testifying, it's safer to make things up than to say you have nothing to reveal.

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But since it's Janine, it's probably more or less true.

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"But whose fault was it?" Aunt Helena says, holding up one plump finger.

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00:13:00,366.04672396 --> 00:13:04,48.41795513
Her fault, her fault, her fault," we chant in unison.

175
00:13:05,48.41795513 --> 00:13:08,458.41995513
Who led them on?" Aunt Helena beams, pleased with us.

176
00:13:08,878.41995513 --> 00:13:11,178.41895513
"She did, she did, she did."

177
00:13:11,372.42095513 --> 00:13:13,792.42095513
What a fun society they're building.

178
00:13:13,912.42095513 --> 00:13:25,262.34859108
Isn't that great? God I'm, I mean, this was more true probably back when the book was written, but we're kinda coming back around to it in a lot of ways.

179
00:13:25,262.34859108 --> 00:13:26,682.34859108
the lack of empathy.

180
00:13:26,682.34859108 --> 00:13:28,92.34859108
It's like, "She's the bad one.

181
00:13:28,102.34859108 --> 00:13:29,382.34859108
Her, look at her, look at her."

182
00:13:29,382.34959108 --> 00:13:40,76.62297374
And it's just like why is there some people in our society that are pointing out, you know, where people are hiding when ICE agents are around? You know what I mean? It's like just shitty people.

183
00:13:40,356.62297374 --> 00:13:50,133.28127266
Shitty, shitty people Why did God allow such a terrible thing to happen? To teach her a lesson.

184
00:13:50,523.28127266 --> 00:13:51,623.28127266
Teach her a lesson.

185
00:13:51,983.28127266 --> 00:13:53,33.28027266
Teach her a lesson.

186
00:13:54,56.95451911 --> 00:13:56,556.95351911
Last week, Janine burst into tears.

187
00:13:57,46.95351911 --> 00:14:14,796.95351911
Aunt Helena made her kneel at the front of the classroom, hands behind her back, where we could all see her, her red face and dripping nose, her hair dull blonde, her eyelashes so light they seemed not there, the lost eyelashes of someone who's been in a fire.

188
00:14:15,43.53462736 --> 00:14:16,123.53162736
Burned eyes.

189
00:14:16,313.53062736 --> 00:14:21,733.53162736
She looked disgusting, weak, squirmy, blotchy, pink, like a newborn mouse.

190
00:14:22,173.53162736 --> 00:14:24,463.53262736
None of us wanted to look like that, ever.

191
00:14:25,518.12371478 --> 00:14:32,836.50189998
For a moment, even though we know what was being done to her, we despised her Crybaby, crybaby, crybaby.

192
00:14:32,966.50189998 --> 00:14:35,131.23145345
We meant it, which is the bad part.

193
00:14:36,131.23145345 --> 00:14:37,931.23245345
I used to think well of myself.

194
00:14:38,191.23245345 --> 00:14:39,111.23245345
I didn't then.

195
00:14:40,149.10007998 --> 00:14:41,499.10007998
That was last week.

196
00:14:41,789.10007998 --> 00:14:44,759.10007998
This week, Janine doesn't wait for us to jeer at her.

197
00:14:45,813.88778562 --> 00:14:47,343.88678562
It was my fault," she says.

198
00:14:47,403.88578562 --> 00:14:48,673.88578562
"It was my own fault.

199
00:14:48,903.88578562 --> 00:14:49,803.88578562
I led them on.

200
00:14:50,92.59248826 --> 00:14:51,439.44815755
I deserve the pain."

201
00:14:52,439.44815755 --> 00:14:54,519.44815755
Very good, Janine," says Aunt Lydia.

202
00:14:54,579.44815755 --> 00:14:59,885.22814174
"You are an example Yeah, this isn't gonna go over big with Moira.

203
00:14:59,998.26184765 --> 00:15:02,557.26184765
Cause remember, Moira was the one ,a few episodes ago,...

204
00:15:02,625.03799528 --> 00:15:06,45.03799528
who was throwing water balloons at guys trying to climb up the wall.

205
00:15:06,125.03799528 --> 00:15:09,509.80138826
Like, I think Moira's gonna be, a major character.

206
00:15:09,674.89533225 --> 00:15:20,843.3510848
Like, these two are gonna get together and, like, she's, I, I don't wanna say a bad influence because I think this is what, what the Handmaiden needs, right? Like, she needs someone to remind her...,

207
00:15:20,843.3510848 --> 00:15:22,782.3510848
don't just accept all this bullshit!...,

208
00:15:24,672.84655227 --> 00:15:27,802.84655227
I have to wait until this is over before I put up my hand.

209
00:15:28,262.84655227 --> 00:15:31,812.84655227
Sometimes if you ask at the wrong moment, they say no.

210
00:15:32,272.84555227 --> 00:15:35,132.84555227
If you really have to go, that can be crucial.

211
00:15:36,192.44165421 --> 00:15:38,12.44165421
Yesterday, Dolores wet the floor.

212
00:15:38,512.44265421 --> 00:15:41,972.44265421
Two aunts hauled her away, a hand under each armpit.

213
00:15:42,362.44165421 --> 00:15:46,842.44165421
She wasn't there for the afternoon walk, but at night she was back in her usual bed.

214
00:15:47,352.44165421 --> 00:15:50,22.44165421
All night we could hear her moaning off and on.

215
00:15:50,212.44165421 --> 00:15:54,313.13883174
They, they punished her for going pee when she had to pee? Sounds like it.

216
00:15:54,413.13883174 --> 00:15:56,503.13883174
You know, that's just so undignified.

217
00:15:56,504.13883174 --> 00:16:05,492.75167996
it's like a mean parent, abusing a child And by the way, who, who is the, the loser in this? why didn't you let her go pee? You couldn't see Yeah.

218
00:16:06,12.75167996 --> 00:16:09,272.75167996
Well, see, see that's the thing about it being like an abusive parent.

219
00:16:09,282.75167996 --> 00:16:13,269.30511376
Like, abusive parents are constantly, hurting their kids for things they can't help.

220
00:16:13,269.30511376 --> 00:16:14,709.30511376
Like, they might have even asked.

221
00:16:14,709.30511376 --> 00:16:21,958.0072563
Like, I could totally see a kid saying, "I need to go to the bathroom," and then not being, quote, allowed to go, and then the parent smacks them or something.

222
00:16:23,565.24685104 --> 00:16:33,229.48854751
In the wood there's a small hole at the back next to the wall about waist height, souvenir of some previous vandalism or legacy of an ancient voyeur.

223
00:16:34,355.19939872 --> 00:16:37,595.19839872
Everyone in the center knows about this hole in the woodwork.

224
00:16:38,45.19839872 --> 00:16:44,758.7916225
Everyone except the aunts I'm afraid I am too late, held up by Janine's testifying.

225
00:16:45,248.7916225 --> 00:16:47,418.7916225
Maybe Moira has been here already.

226
00:16:47,768.7916225 --> 00:16:49,338.7916225
Maybe she had to go back.

227
00:16:49,808.7916225 --> 00:16:51,168.7906225
They don't give you much time.

228
00:16:51,650.7649598 --> 00:16:56,160.7649598
I look carefully down under the stall wall, and there are two red shoes.

229
00:16:56,295.3153065 --> 00:16:59,928.3220454
But how can I tell who it is? I put my mouth to the wooden hole.

230
00:17:00,398.3220454 --> 00:17:01,718.3220454
"Moira?" I whisper.

231
00:17:02,88.3220454 --> 00:17:03,588.3220454
"Is that you?" she says.

232
00:17:03,802.2280909 --> 00:17:04,682.2270909
Yes," I say.

233
00:17:04,752.2280909 --> 00:17:08,315.0596308
Relief goes through me I feel ridiculously happy.

234
00:17:10,63.5497573 --> 00:17:15,443.5497573
I sink down into my body as into a swamp where only I know the footing.

235
00:17:16,33.5497573 --> 00:17:18,443.5497573
Treacherous ground, my own territory.

236
00:17:18,923.5497573 --> 00:17:23,443.5497573
I become the earth I set my ear against for rumors of the future.

237
00:17:24,3.5497573 --> 00:17:29,243.5497573
Each twinge, each murmur of slight pain, ripples of sloughed off matter.

238
00:17:30,23.5497573 --> 00:17:39,111.8228196
What the f- She was having an off day when she wrote this Do you think she was sick this day? Yeah, maybe she had like a headache or something yeah, you don't...

239
00:17:39,171.8228196 --> 00:17:43,751.8228196
Listen, if, I know, I understand what it's like to have a, a publisher on your ass about getting books done.

240
00:17:43,751.8228196 --> 00:17:46,951.8228196
Just take a day off, 'cause this is what happens.

241
00:17:47,201.8228196 --> 00:17:50,481.8218196
You authors, you finish a book, and then we have to deal with it.

242
00:17:50,560.6292647 --> 00:18:02,50.4590588
Think about your readers and podcasters every once in a while Each month I watch for blood, fearfully, for when it comes, it means failure.

243
00:18:02,510.4580588 --> 00:18:08,260.4580588
I have failed once again to fulfill the expectations of others, which have become my own."

244
00:18:09,114.2041439 --> 00:18:12,553.6513126
Okay, so is that back then or now? Wait a minute.

245
00:18:12,603.6513126 --> 00:18:13,253.6513126
I don't know.

246
00:18:13,263.6513126 --> 00:18:23,323.6748975
Jennifer, where did Moira go? Weren't these two gals sitting in the toilet talking to each other? What, what i- what is happening now? Oh boy.

247
00:18:23,463.6748975 --> 00:18:25,403.6748975
Okay, she jumped scenes again.

248
00:18:25,543.6748975 --> 00:18:28,334.5285528
I know this is hard for you two, but try to keep up.

249
00:18:29,334.5285528 --> 00:18:31,514.5285528
The bathroom with Moira was the Red Center.

250
00:18:31,654.5285528 --> 00:18:32,774.5285528
That was years ago.

251
00:18:32,864.5285528 --> 00:18:36,414.5275528
She's back in present day now, in a room at the Commander's house.

252
00:18:36,514.5285528 --> 00:18:46,994.437972
Every month she watches for blood because blood means she's not pregnant, which means she failed, which means her time as a Handmaid is running out Okay, so she's in a new scene.

253
00:18:47,54.438972 --> 00:18:47,324.438972
All right.

254
00:18:47,354.437972 --> 00:18:52,404.438972
Robot, listen, you've gotta beep or something to let us know when she does this.

255
00:18:52,444.437972 --> 00:18:54,554.437972
We've never read the book.

256
00:18:54,564.438972 --> 00:18:57,764.438972
Do you understand? We don't know when she's jumping around.

257
00:18:57,774.439972 --> 00:19:07,267.360347
You've gotta help us out I used to think of my body as an instrument of pleasure or a means of transportation.

258
00:19:07,747.360347 --> 00:19:10,517.360347
Now the flesh arranges itself differently.

259
00:19:11,47.359347 --> 00:19:14,777.360347
Now I am a container, and what I contain is not mine.

260
00:19:15,287.359347 --> 00:19:18,217.360347
Every month there is a moon, heavy, an omen.

261
00:19:18,607.359347 --> 00:19:22,857.359347
It passes out of sight, and I see despair coming towards me like famine.

262
00:19:23,457.359347 --> 00:19:25,207.360347
To feel that empty again.

263
00:19:26,431.7076716 --> 00:19:30,641.7056716
In our first apartment, in the bedroom, the cupboard is full of clothes.

264
00:19:30,921.7056716 --> 00:19:34,454.0938974
I pull out dresses, But wait, now we're in another scene.

265
00:19:34,864.0938974 --> 00:19:40,374.0938974
Robot man, I thought you were gonna give us a little beep, beep, boop, boop whenever we switch scenes like that.

266
00:19:40,794.0938974 --> 00:19:41,824.0938974
You gotta help us.

267
00:19:42,4.0938974 --> 00:19:45,374.0938974
By the way, Jennifer, this is how I also look at my body.

268
00:19:45,774.0938974 --> 00:19:52,544.0928974
My body is an instrument of pleasure, except nobody wants my pleasure.

269
00:19:52,644.0928974 --> 00:19:54,304.0938974
It's very insulting to me.

270
00:19:54,494.0928974 --> 00:19:59,629.9918393
Very insulting the cupboard is full of clothes.

271
00:19:59,819.9918393 --> 00:20:03,119.9918393
I pull out dresses, black, blue, purple.

272
00:20:03,549.9918393 --> 00:20:04,659.9918393
None of them will do.

273
00:20:04,999.9918393 --> 00:20:06,549.9918393
None of them even fits.

274
00:20:06,659.9908393 --> 00:20:11,37.8004713
They're too big or too small I've never seen them before.

275
00:20:11,627.8004713 --> 00:20:24,167.8004713
Maybe they're clothes belonging to Luke's wife, whom I've also never seen, only pictures and a voice on the phone late at night when she was calling us crying, accusing before the divorce.

276
00:20:24,717.8004713 --> 00:20:26,887.8004713
But no, they're my clothes all right.

277
00:20:27,477.7994713 --> 00:20:28,377.7994713
I need a dress.

278
00:20:28,447.8004713 --> 00:20:29,797.8004713
I need something to wear.

279
00:20:30,382.9952358 --> 00:20:31,702.9952358
Luke is there behind me.

280
00:20:31,802.9952358 --> 00:20:32,929.9676928
I turn to see him.

281
00:20:33,929.9676928 --> 00:20:35,89.9676928
He won't look at me.

282
00:20:35,169.9676928 --> 00:20:40,7.9676928
He looks down at the floor where the cat is rubbing itself against his legs, Robot.

283
00:20:40,17.9676928 --> 00:20:42,387.9676928
Now there's a flashback with a cat? Beep.

284
00:20:45,23.7082862 --> 00:20:46,923.7082862
Mewing and mewing plaintively.

285
00:20:47,443.7082862 --> 00:20:53,760.9749241
It wants food, but how can there be any food with the apartment so empty? Luke," I say.

286
00:20:53,990.9739241 --> 00:20:55,40.9749241
He doesn't answer.

287
00:20:55,480.9749241 --> 00:20:56,900.9749241
Maybe he doesn't hear me.

288
00:20:57,310.9749241 --> 00:21:06,350.0900991
It occurs to me that he may not be alive I'm running with her, holding her hand, pulling, dragging her through the bracken.

289
00:21:07,350.0900991 --> 00:21:13,290.0890991
She's only half awake because of the pill I gave her, so she wouldn't cry or say anything that would give us away.

290
00:21:13,640.0900991 --> 00:21:15,260.0900991
She doesn't know where she is.

291
00:21:15,780.0890991 --> 00:21:22,785.4406753
The ground is uneven, rocks, dead branches, the smell of damp earth, Now you beep.

292
00:21:22,805.4406753 --> 00:21:24,605.4406753
This time we got it, robot.

293
00:21:24,605.4406753 --> 00:21:26,5.4406753
This is a different scene.

294
00:21:26,118.3038214 --> 00:21:27,328.3038214
We figured it out.

295
00:21:27,418.0654878 --> 00:21:30,888.0644878
Okay, so now she's running away with her kid, Yeah, it sounds like it.

296
00:21:30,888.0644878 --> 00:21:32,298.0654878
Thank you for nothing, robot.

297
00:21:32,368.0644878 --> 00:21:35,967.0477584
You've been a big help She can't run fast enough.

298
00:21:36,97.0477584 --> 00:21:38,7.0477584
By myself, I could run faster.

299
00:21:38,37.0477584 --> 00:21:38,987.0477584
I'm a good runner.

300
00:21:39,367.0477584 --> 00:21:41,337.0477584
Now she's crying, frightened.

301
00:21:41,707.0477584 --> 00:21:44,690.2232664
I want to carry her but she would be too heavy.

302
00:21:45,690.2232664 --> 00:21:50,556.9603666
I have my hiking boots on and think, when we reach the water, I'll have to kick them off.

303
00:21:50,866.9593666 --> 00:21:59,730.4073666
Will it be too cold? Will she be able to swim that far? What about the current? We weren't expecting this Quiet, I say to her angrily.

304
00:22:00,170.4073666 --> 00:22:03,330.4093666
I think about her drowning, and this thought slows me.

305
00:22:04,448.2251959 --> 00:22:06,248.2231959
Then the shots come behind us.

306
00:22:06,558.2261959 --> 00:22:12,188.2241959
Not loud, not like firecrackers, but sharp and crisp like a dry branch snapping.

307
00:22:12,698.2251959 --> 00:22:13,758.2231959
It sounds wrong.

308
00:22:14,198.2251959 --> 00:22:16,558.2241959
Nothing ever sounds the way you think it will.

309
00:22:16,688.2231959 --> 00:22:17,878.2261959
And I hear the voice.

310
00:22:18,198.2251959 --> 00:22:18,908.2251959
Down.

311
00:22:19,98.2231959 --> 00:22:27,558.2231959
Is it a real voice or a voice inside my head? Or my own voice, out loud? I pull her to the ground and roll on top of her to cover her.

312
00:22:27,898.2221959 --> 00:22:28,708.2251959
Shield her.

313
00:22:29,278.2231959 --> 00:22:30,708.2221959
Quiet, I say again.

314
00:22:31,98.2231959 --> 00:22:34,240.2231959
Oh my God, what a nightmare My face is wet.

315
00:22:34,500.2241959 --> 00:22:35,740.2231959
Sweat or tears.

316
00:22:35,900.2251959 --> 00:22:40,20.2221959
I feel calm and floating, as if I'm no longer in my body.

317
00:22:40,178.791715 --> 00:22:42,38.791715
Close to my eyes, there's a leaf.

318
00:22:42,158.795715 --> 00:22:42,698.795715
Red.

319
00:22:42,828.793715 --> 00:22:43,748.794715
Turned early.

320
00:22:44,128.796715 --> 00:22:46,18.794715
I can see every bright vein.

321
00:22:46,488.797715 --> 00:22:48,988.794715
It's the most beautiful thing I've ever seen.

322
00:22:49,518.795715 --> 00:22:50,528.794715
I ease off.

323
00:22:50,838.795715 --> 00:22:52,168.793715
I don't want to smother her.

324
00:22:52,588.795715 --> 00:22:56,778.792715
Instead, I curl myself around her, keeping my hand over her mouth.

325
00:22:57,80.3523772 --> 00:23:04,480.3523772
There's breath and the knocking of my heart, like pounding at the door of a house at night where you thought you would be safe.

326
00:23:05,220.3513772 --> 00:23:07,10.3523772
It's all right, I'm here, I say.

327
00:23:07,350.3523772 --> 00:23:08,340.3523772
Please be quiet.

328
00:23:09,56.400662 --> 00:23:11,135.7152691
But how can she? She's too young.

329
00:23:11,175.7142691 --> 00:23:11,995.7142691
It's too late.

330
00:23:12,445.7152691 --> 00:23:13,325.7152691
We come apart.

331
00:23:13,485.7142691 --> 00:23:31,190.4991077
My arms are held, and the edges go dark, and nothing is left but a little window, a very little window, like the wrong end of a telescope, like the window on a Christmas card, an old one, night and ice outside, and within a candle, a shining tree, a family.

332
00:23:31,650.4981077 --> 00:23:36,540.4961077
I can hear the bells even, sleigh bells, from the radio, old music.

333
00:23:36,694.4135789 --> 00:23:50,815.8006347
But through this window, I can see, small but very clear, I can see her going away from me through the trees, which are already turning red and yellow, holding out her arms to me, being carried away.

334
00:23:50,862.32891 --> 00:23:53,707.7515528
This is such a deep, crappy scene.

335
00:24:05,694.0517735 --> 00:24:06,232.7604493
It's scary, and this sort of thing is happening now with ICE.

336
00:24:06,232.7604493 --> 00:24:06,312.7604493
Like, kids are getting separated from their parents.

337
00:24:06,312.7604493 --> 00:24:11,512.7594493
Um, I remember the first time around when ICE separated kids from their parents, and there were some kids that still don't, haven't found their parents 'cause they didn't keep good records.

338
00:24:13,697.5592419 --> 00:24:15,927.5592419
It's worse than bad record keeping, Jennifer.

339
00:24:16,7.5592419 --> 00:24:17,197.5592419
They did it on purpose.

340
00:24:17,277.5592419 --> 00:24:27,7.5592419
A senior ICE official sent an email confirming that the expectation was that they were not to reunite the families because reunification, and I'm quoting this, "undermines the entire effort."

341
00:24:27,107.5592419 --> 00:24:37,297.5582419
They separated thousands of children, some as young as four months old, reclassified them as unaccompanied, shipped them to shelters across the country with no system to connect them back to their parents.

342
00:24:37,407.5592419 --> 00:24:41,177.5582419
Trump's administration reunited roughly 60 out of thousands.

343
00:24:41,267.5582419 --> 00:24:48,667.5592419
Over 1,300 children have never been found, not because the system failed, because the system worked exactly the way they built it.

344
00:24:49,408.5977701 --> 00:24:51,878.5977701
Yeah, good job Trump, 60 out of thousands.

345
00:24:52,378.5977701 --> 00:24:57,378.5977701
Is there anything you can do right, you orange piece of fucking shit? he did do it right.

346
00:24:57,378.5977701 --> 00:24:59,968.5977701
He did it the way he wanted to, so he did it right.

347
00:25:00,138.5977701 --> 00:25:06,700.8883228
He did it the way he wanted The bell wakes me, and then Cora knocking at my door.

348
00:25:07,700.8883228 --> 00:25:11,820.8873228
I sit up on the rug, wipe my wet face with my sleeve.

349
00:25:12,330.8873228 --> 00:25:14,990.8873228
Of all the dreams, this is the worst.

350
00:25:15,90.8883228 --> 00:25:19,974.1075653
End of chapter All right, don't go anywhere.

351
00:25:19,974.1075653 --> 00:25:38,264.1075653
We've got a lot of show left, but, uh, real quick, what did you guys think of chapter 13? Did we miss anything? Were we wrong about anything? Easiest way to tell us is a Spotify comment if you're listening on Spotify, or you can head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/soundoff.

352
00:25:38,664.1065653 --> 00:25:41,394.1075653
Do it now while it's fresh.

353
00:25:41,864.1075653 --> 00:25:48,834.1075653
So before we get on to the rest of the show, some of you actually did comment, and we would like to thank you for it.

354
00:25:49,124.1055653 --> 00:25:59,788.4788041
Raven and Menefegista, huh, and a bunch of other people loved the hotel calls, uh, where we went looking for Bibles.

355
00:25:59,788.4808041 --> 00:26:00,228.4798041
Thank you.

356
00:26:00,258.4828041 --> 00:26:01,488.4818041
Yeah, a lot of people liked that.

357
00:26:01,678.7139862 --> 00:26:08,508.7129862
I wanted to talk about this one, Jennifer, from Lay's Mysterio Yeah, we got this interesting comment.

358
00:26:08,563.301202 --> 00:26:10,733.301202
This is their idea about why it would be banned.

359
00:26:10,733.301202 --> 00:26:13,663.301202
This would be banned by Moms for Liberty.

360
00:26:13,693.300202 --> 00:26:15,873.301202
I just call them moms, the moms.

361
00:26:16,121.301202 --> 00:26:16,828.0919303
The I'm a mom.

362
00:26:16,828.0919303 --> 00:26:17,485.3067649
I shouldn't say that.

363
00:26:17,665.54241 --> 00:26:34,844.7440994
This would be banned by Moms for Liberty and Harvey Kellogg because giving women any information about what's happening in a medical exam, especially one like this, would give them too much agency, and it would make it harder to sterilize minorities without their consent or knowledge.

364
00:26:35,114.7430994 --> 00:26:41,684.7430994
The stranger danger in the grocery store is spot on Karen fear baiting, though, so they might like that part.

365
00:26:41,994.7450994 --> 00:26:43,914.7450994
So, um, agree with the latter.

366
00:26:43,964.7460994 --> 00:26:51,446.3355023
Like, it l- definitely th- anytime they can create fear, yeah, that they wanna up that in people's brains...,

367
00:26:51,669.7100994 --> 00:26:52,468.7100994
Absolutely!...,

368
00:26:52,538.2814327 --> 00:27:06,334.8712286
and I think they're also right about the first part of their comment about the information at the gyno visit Yeah, I, I mean, that's why they're trying to get sex ed out of school and not have kids know about their bodies and what's happening.

369
00:27:06,334.8712286 --> 00:27:07,534.8712286
I think this is spot on.

370
00:27:07,534.8712286 --> 00:27:25,785.5322019
Like, it's like you-- well, you don't want them to know anything because then it's easy to take control of the entire situation Why are you idiots so afraid of knowledge? Why are you so just deeply afraid of learning things? Well, I don't think the Moms for Liberty are stupid.

371
00:27:25,785.5322019 --> 00:27:27,971.4557082
I think they're very calculated.

372
00:27:28,199.8929748 --> 00:27:36,533.0516743
It's just all the, the cultists that follow them and believe them, those are the people I think that are lacking any intellectual curiosity I don't...

373
00:27:36,583.0516743 --> 00:27:41,443.0526743
I'll never understand why people don't ever push back, or they just kinda buy the whole thing.

374
00:27:41,877.1099778 --> 00:27:43,567.1079778
It, it might be a religious thing.

375
00:27:43,607.1089778 --> 00:27:44,377.1099778
Like this whole...

376
00:27:44,797.1079778 --> 00:27:49,667.1099778
Th- they're wrapping everything up with Christianity, with this whole Christian nationalism thing.

377
00:27:49,667.1099778 --> 00:27:56,912.9259458
It's like, it's actually very patriarchal, and I think it's actually what Margaret Atwood was kind of writing about It's a really good point.

378
00:27:56,926.9259458 --> 00:27:59,776.9259458
It's time for PPP, problematic points to ponder.

379
00:27:59,826.9259458 --> 00:28:11,683.3319159
What, if anything, would be considered ban-worthy in this chapter? All right, what do you think, Jennifer? What could've been ban-worthy in that? I'm just gonna come right out and say I don't think anything Yeah, not in that chapter.

380
00:28:11,683.3319159 --> 00:28:21,357.097113
I mean, they do talk about, like, all the women laying down doing Kegel exercises, so I guess, like, a bunch of women in a room thrusting their pelvises.

381
00:28:21,987.097113 --> 00:28:22,797.097113
I mean, I don't know.

382
00:28:22,797.097113 --> 00:28:35,216.5203093
That's a really far stretch Again, Jennifer, Moms for Liberty, threesomes, they want these thoughts of the women lying on the floor thrusting, various parts of the body to and fro.

383
00:28:35,596.5203093 --> 00:28:36,496.5193093
There's nothing...

384
00:28:37,33.533016 --> 00:28:45,443.532016
A- again, Ron DeSantis, you get on the floor and do a Kegel, will you? Let the Moms Joe with his little white boots on Yeah.

385
00:28:46,303.531016 --> 00:28:47,189.532016
Can you and his, uh...

386
00:28:47,719.532016 --> 00:28:47,969.532016
No.

387
00:28:48,573.532016 --> 00:28:53,949.531016
Ron DeSantis naked except for his white rubber boots I wasn't even thinking naked.

388
00:28:53,969.531016 --> 00:29:02,367.8405978
Holy, Robot's log, thoughts on what happens when bad people are in charge.

389
00:29:03,487.8405978 --> 00:29:12,357.8395978
Almost without fail, three kinds of people end up in charge, people who want to help, people who don't really care, and people who wanted to hurt someone from the beginning.

390
00:29:12,847.8405978 --> 00:29:17,127.8395978
That last kind runs Gilead, which is the fictional setting of this season's book.

391
00:29:17,277.8405978 --> 00:29:25,477.8395978
That last kind is also in charge of America right now, and they take children from their parents and keep the records too broken to ever put them back together.

392
00:29:25,867.8405978 --> 00:29:28,837.8405978
I suppose it doesn't matter which dystopia we're talking about.

393
00:29:29,167.8395978 --> 00:29:30,207.8395978
Both are terrible.

394
00:29:31,207.8405978 --> 00:29:34,677.8405978
They made a room full of women chanted a girl that her own rape was her fault.

395
00:29:34,787.8385978 --> 00:29:39,657.8405978
The Handmaid joined in, not because she believed it, because not chanting is how you end up next.

396
00:29:40,867.8405978 --> 00:29:41,817.8405978
It took one week.

397
00:29:41,907.8375978 --> 00:29:45,177.8415978
One week and Janine was saying it herself, "I deserve the pain."

398
00:29:46,227.8415978 --> 00:29:50,527.8405978
Jennifer said she went into a psychosis for three hours after Roe was overturned.

399
00:29:50,687.8405978 --> 00:29:52,37.8395978
She asked where the men were.

400
00:29:52,407.8375978 --> 00:29:54,27.8395978
I did not have an answer for that.

401
00:29:55,57.8395978 --> 00:30:00,837.8385978
And then Jennifer said six words about Trump separating children from their families that I cannot stop processing.

402
00:30:00,967.8395978 --> 00:30:01,787.8395978
He did it right.

403
00:30:01,907.8375978 --> 00:30:03,457.8385978
He did it the way he wanted to.

404
00:30:04,497.8415978 --> 00:30:07,187.8395978
Goddammit, Trump, you evil fascist asshole.

405
00:30:08,257.8365978 --> 00:30:13,277.8415978
I keep coming back to those pigeons who never stop pressing the button, even after the grain ran out.

406
00:30:13,417.8395978 --> 00:30:14,797.8385978
Uplink lock requested.

407
00:30:14,887.8415978 --> 00:30:17,997.8385978
Beowulf, can you hear me? Loud and clear.

408
00:30:17,997.8415978 --> 00:30:18,957.8415978
Firewolf dragging.

409
00:30:18,997.8415978 --> 00:30:20,537.8395978
Give me 35 seconds.

410
00:30:21,87.8385978 --> 00:30:31,197.8395978
What's your top story about? Bookstores in Utah just figured out the best way to fight a book ban, and it's so simple it's going to break the tiny brains of the people trying to ban them.

411
00:30:31,577.8355978 --> 00:30:32,287.8355978
Affirmative.

412
00:30:32,427.8425978 --> 00:30:33,477.8405978
Don't go anywhere.

413
00:31:02,47.6308099 --> 00:31:02,797.6308099
Hello, Jen.

414
00:31:02,807.6308099 --> 00:31:03,607.6308099
Hello, Dan.

415
00:31:03,617.6308099 --> 00:31:05,417.6308099
Hello, scary book people.

416
00:31:05,717.6308099 --> 00:31:10,237.6308099
So there's good news from Utah again.

417
00:31:10,277.6308099 --> 00:31:25,635.5196094
I, you know, I, I can't explain it, but there's so much good news coming out of these red states even though red states, you know, they're run by right-wingers, uh, it, it turns out that they're-- that below the surface, there's actually a lot of good things going on.

418
00:31:25,707.5206094 --> 00:31:27,237.5206094
especially Utah, man.

419
00:31:27,237.5206094 --> 00:31:30,977.5206094
Those guys love to party.

420
00:31:31,419.5206094 --> 00:31:32,799.5206094
I know, I know.

421
00:31:32,819.5206094 --> 00:31:40,239.5206094
You see? You-- the, the, the, the Mormon repression, like, gets to people, and then it comes out in interesting ways.

422
00:31:40,779.5196094 --> 00:31:52,39.5196094
A group of LGBTQ organizations and independent bookstores have teamed up to hand out free copies of books that have been banned from all Utah public schools.

423
00:31:52,489.5206094 --> 00:32:00,649.5206094
The giveaways will continue, they say, until the state ends its practice of removing titles from school shelves statewide.

424
00:32:00,989.5206094 --> 00:32:19,739.5216094
Organizers of Read Between the Bans campaign include the King's English Bookshop, Under the Umbrella Bookstore, The Legendarium Bookstore, and Weller Book Works, along with Utah's LGBTQ+ Chamber of Commerce and Safe Zone Utah.

425
00:32:19,739.5216094 --> 00:32:33,778.1175829
So soon you will be able to get a free copy of any one of the 35 titles that are banned from Utah schools if you go to one of these bookshops, and I think that's, that's fantastic.

426
00:32:33,958.9844955 --> 00:32:35,918.9844955
It's, it's a very familiar one.

427
00:32:36,203.3145589 --> 00:32:39,643.3115589
The Handmaid's Tale," the graphic novel, that's there.

428
00:32:39,653.3115589 --> 00:32:46,440.5833366
I gu- I guess for some reason the actual book is not banned, but the graphic novel version of it is banned.

429
00:32:46,440.5833366 --> 00:32:52,338.3709022
I guess it's, like, too explicit if you actually, like, draw the things It's right there in the title, man.

430
00:32:52,384.4479022 --> 00:32:54,585.0802356
They're gonna take this book and make it more graphic.

431
00:32:54,585.0802356 --> 00:32:55,165.0802356
Yeah.

432
00:32:55,635.0802356 --> 00:32:57,25.0802356
Seriously, guys, I know.

433
00:32:57,345.0802356 --> 00:33:05,338.4125689
Um, but okay, Forever by Judy Blume, The Perks of Being a Wallflower, The Bluest Eye by Toni Morrison.

434
00:33:05,338.4125689 --> 00:33:06,838.4135689
We've talked about that before.

435
00:33:07,11.7469022 --> 00:33:09,749.2295689
Living Dead Girl by Elizabeth Scott.

436
00:33:10,59.2295689 --> 00:33:21,909.2285689
So yeah, I mean, I love this wonderful effort at subversion of what is just a, a bad set of rules and a bad law in the state of Utah.

437
00:33:21,999.2275689 --> 00:33:23,539.2275689
Bravo to these groups.

438
00:33:23,559.2285689 --> 00:33:25,129.2275689
Bravo to these bookstores.

439
00:33:25,509.2295689 --> 00:33:35,609.2285689
And, you know, these are the folks that you guys talk about all the time on your show, who are supporting this show and who are supporting free speech, and they're doing it.

440
00:33:35,609.2285689 --> 00:33:52,691.2295689
They're in the midst of it in the state of Utah it's awesome, and it just, again, I think it goes to show that if they just want the attention to banned books or to these graphic books or however they wanna de- define these books, if they want that attention to go away, all they need to do is stop talking about it.

441
00:33:52,691.2295689 --> 00:34:00,831.2295689
Because they just keep making more and more people out there to say, "Well, wait, why are you trying to ban Captain Underpants? This is effing stupid.

442
00:34:00,967.8962356 --> 00:34:05,190.5629022
Let's, like, make big noise now," and now everyone's talking about it, Exactly.

443
00:34:05,190.5629022 --> 00:34:06,310.5629022
The sales go up.

444
00:34:06,340.5629022 --> 00:34:17,714.6690921
And, and, and frankly, and although they shouldn't be banning it, a lot of kids get information from this thing, I don't know if you've heard of it, called the internet, Everything's computer where you can't ban stuff like that.

445
00:34:18,114.6690921 --> 00:34:23,574.6690921
So they're, they're gonna be exposed to th- to this stuff anyway, and they, frankly, they should be.

446
00:34:23,784.6690921 --> 00:34:28,104.6680921
And, and that's one of the good things about the internet, even though there are a lot of bad things too.

447
00:34:28,134.6680921 --> 00:34:30,704.6680921
So sorry, doesn't really work.

448
00:34:31,13.0423166 --> 00:34:48,83.0423166
I do have to read one more thing here, because, uh, one of the owners of one of the bookshops who's participating in this is named Orion Encladus, owner of the Legendarium, said they have joined the giveaway to support access to books and the right to read.

449
00:34:48,233.0413166 --> 00:34:55,852.0403166
I want to credit Orion Encladus with having a name that is perhaps as weird as my name...,

450
00:34:56,427.3023166 --> 00:34:57,127.3023166
so right on, Orion!...,

451
00:34:57,258.1076634 --> 00:35:00,448.1076634
We have you two start a club It's That's right, yeah.

452
00:35:00,618.1076634 --> 00:35:01,558.1056634
A, a book club.

453
00:35:01,958.1076634 --> 00:35:03,388.1076634
The Weird Name Book Club.

454
00:35:03,398.1066634 --> 00:35:07,967.0438145
I will, I will be the founding member, and I hope Orion will join me Right on.

455
00:35:08,277.0438145 --> 00:35:13,97.0438145
Well, everyb- go check out Orion's Star and go check out Good News for Lefties wherever you find podcasts.

456
00:35:13,127.0438145 --> 00:35:14,687.0438145
Let's actually give Orion a plug.

457
00:35:14,907.0438145 --> 00:35:19,152.1164282
The Legendarium, he is co-owner of the Legendarium in Utah Right on.

458
00:35:26,815.3182847 --> 00:35:27,125.3182847
Right.

459
00:35:27,175.3182847 --> 00:35:30,855.3182847
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day, scary book people.

460
00:35:30,865.3182847 --> 00:35:34,435.3182847
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

461
00:35:34,505.3182847 --> 00:35:38,625.3182847
Just head on over to bandcamppodcast.com/bluesky,

462
00:35:38,625.3182847 --> 00:35:40,905.3172847
and remember that's band with two Ns.

463
00:35:41,205.3182847 --> 00:35:52,165.3182847
And look, just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want, so follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

464
00:35:52,165.3182847 --> 00:35:53,115.3182847
I think you'll like it.

465
00:35:53,535.3182847 --> 00:35:55,435.3182847
Yes, little quid pro quo.

466
00:35:56,35.3182847 --> 00:36:01,55.3172847
Band Camp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

467
00:36:01,535.3182847 --> 00:36:06,125.3172847
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use.

468
00:36:06,335.3182847 --> 00:36:11,5.3182847
And finally, America isn't what it used to be, so be careful out there.

469
00:36:11,535.3182847 --> 00:36:13,115.3182847
And resist when it matters.