April 6, 2026
The Catcher in the Rye | Ch. 17: Girl Watching, Phonies, and the Love You Don’t Mean
The player is loading ...
Holden arrives early to meet Sally Hayes, watches girls in the lobby, and realizes he wants to marry her the second she walks in — even though he doesn't even like her. What follows is a date full of cab rides, bad theater, and a guy named George who takes up way too much space in a checkered vest. By the end, Holden hates everyone, including himself, and Sally has a marvelous idea.
Banned Camp is a comedy podcast where we read banned books chapter by chapter — we don't read ahead, so you're discovering the story with us.
Things To Listen For:
- Holden's extended meditation on boring guys and the one roommate who was a terrific whistler — and Jennifer losing her mind over the tangent
- The moment Holden tells Sally he loves her, admits it's a lie, then says he meant it when he said it
- Dan and Jennifer debating whether Sally is a phony or just an uncomfortable girl doing her best
- "Every toe in her body" — a Salinger original that breaks both hosts
- Dan pointing out that less than seven hours ago, a prostitute and her pimp were beating Holden up — and now he's on a date
- Jennifer's mom telling her she didn't really give birth because she had a C-section — during a Macbeth discussion
Why was The Catcher in the Rye banned? This chapter captures one of the book's most quietly dangerous ideas: that the line between honest and dishonest isn't a line at all, and a teenager can figure that out in real time. Book banners don't want kids to realize that adults perform sincerity the same way Holden does — they just never admit it.
If this is your first episode, you're fine starting here. Our fact-checking Robot catches you up fast, then we read the next chapter (spoilers).
Banworthy to Bingeworthy
Check out these podcasts we think you'll love:
- Dateline | Trace of Suspicion — A young Marine, a woman who didn't care about convention, and a death investigation that takes a wild, unexpected turn. Hosted by Josh Menowitz.
- MS NOW presents Clock It — Simone Sanders Townsend breaks down the intersection of culture and politics with sharp analysis and real talk. New episodes drop Thursdays.
Rate, review, and follow us on Apple Podcasts to help other scary book people find us!
Featured Clip: This episode includes short clips from "Girl Watcher" by The O'Kaysions. All rights belong to their respective owners and are used here under fair use for the purpose of cultural commentary and education.
Disclaimer: Banned Camp features readings and discussions of banned books for the purpose of criticism, commentary, education, and entertainment, in accordance with fair use guidelines.
The material used from the book The Catcher in the Rye by J.D. Salinger is shared under these principles, with the intent of provoking thought and discussion about literature, censorship, and societal issues. The original work remains fully owned by its copyright holders, and we strongly encourage listeners to purchase a copy here to experience the book in its entirety.
This podcast is not affiliated with, endorsed by, or officially connected to J.D. Salinger, his estate, or the publishers of The Catcher in the Rye. Any monetization of the podcast is separate from the copyrighted material discussed.
Topics Covered: The Catcher in the Rye, J.D. Salinger, Chapter 17, Holden Caulfield, Sally Hayes, George, Harris McKim, Alfred Lunt, Lynn Fontanne, phoniness, authenticity, love and self-deception, The O'Kaysions, banned books, banned books podcast, book banning, censorship, literary analysis, comedy podcast
00:00 - The Catcher in the Rye | Ch. 17: Girl Watching, Phonies, and the Love You Don't Mean
01:46 - Watching Girls and Boring Guysa
06:25 - I Felt Like Marrying Her
18:03 - PPP
19:25 - Robot's Closing Thoughts
20:54 - News With Beowulf
1
00:00:03,854.5454545455 --> 00:00:05,294.5454545455
Welcome to Band Camp.
2
00:00:05,294.5454545455 --> 00:00:06,254.5454545455
I'm Jennifer.
3
00:00:06,463.6363636364 --> 00:00:13,123.636363636
I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read band books and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
4
00:00:16,165.454545455 --> 00:00:20,5.454545455
This season, we're reading The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger.
5
00:00:20,5.454545455 --> 00:00:27,25.454545455
It's a classic book, and you can consider this a quick spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book out.
6
00:00:27,25.454545455 --> 00:00:28,375.454545455
Loud word for word.
7
00:00:28,772.886152376 --> 00:00:31,952.886152376
Now, if you're new here, you're totally fine starting out here.
8
00:00:31,952.886152376 --> 00:00:44,75.017240936
We're gonna get you oriented real quick, and if you get confused, don't worry about it, because we're probably gonna be confused too, because we've never read the book either, but that's why we have a secret weapon.
9
00:00:44,345.017240936 --> 00:00:46,145.017240936
Let's bring them in here, buddy.
10
00:00:46,145.017240936 --> 00:00:48,95.017240936
Boy, roll it it comes.
11
00:00:49,301.355439009 --> 00:00:50,441.355439009
Look at this guy.
12
00:00:50,441.355439009 --> 00:01:02,801.355439009
We have ourselves a fact checking robot so we don't spread any fake news or alternative facts, buddy, boy, fill everyone in on where we left off last time.
13
00:01:04,928.179126144 --> 00:01:12,818.179126144
Previously on Band Camp Holden Caulfield walked to a museum he used to love as a kid, stood outside and wouldn't go in for a million bucks.
14
00:01:12,968.179126144 --> 00:01:19,748.179126144
Then he got in a cap to meet a girl he doesn't even like because that's what you do when you can't go backward and you're afraid to go forward.
15
00:01:20,558.179126144 --> 00:01:23,978.179126144
Dan said, trying so hard not to be phony as its own kind of phony.
16
00:01:24,278.179126144 --> 00:01:25,238.179126144
Jennifer agreed.
17
00:01:25,358.179126144 --> 00:01:26,288.179126144
Neither of them noticed.
18
00:01:26,288.179126144 --> 00:01:28,448.179126144
They just described most of the adults they know.
19
00:01:28,973.179126144 --> 00:01:34,163.179126144
There's a particular kind of lie that's only dangerous because the person telling it means every word.
20
00:01:34,673.179126144 --> 00:01:36,113.179126144
Take it away, Jennifer.
21
00:01:36,354.000557372 --> 00:01:36,574.000557372
Woo.
22
00:01:36,862.47530795 --> 00:01:37,892.47530795
Thank you, robot.
23
00:01:37,992.47530795 --> 00:01:40,647.47530795
And with that being said, scary book people.
24
00:01:40,797.47530795 --> 00:01:41,547.47530795
Let's start.
25
00:01:41,855.27275237 --> 00:01:46,186.67147458
Chapter 17 of JD Salinger's, the catcher in the rye.
26
00:01:51,510.84778718 --> 00:02:00,693.27134997
I was way early when I got there, so I just sat down on one of those leather couches right near the clock in the lobby and watched the girls.
27
00:02:01,77.89196741 --> 00:02:10,17.89196741
A lot of schools were home for a vacation already, and there were about a million girls sitting and standing around waiting for their dates to show up.
28
00:02:20,295.56222557 --> 00:02:21,735.56222557
to sit there and watch the girls.
29
00:02:21,825.56222557 --> 00:02:22,935.56222557
Okay, whatever.
30
00:02:23,5.31291557 --> 00:02:24,380.31291557
Not if you're AED up teen.
31
00:02:25,380.31291557 --> 00:02:31,358.99896882
I guess girls with their legs crossed, girls with their legs not crossed.
32
00:02:31,718.99896882 --> 00:02:37,88.99896882
Girls with terrific legs, girls with lousy legs, girls that looked like swell girls.
33
00:02:37,508.99896882 --> 00:02:40,238.99896882
Girls that looked like they'd be bitches if you knew them.
34
00:02:40,538.99896882 --> 00:02:43,448.99896882
It was really nice sightseeing, if you know what I mean.
35
00:02:43,671.20413595 --> 00:02:46,736.08764008
But he really is judgmental judging what they look like.
36
00:02:46,781.08764008 --> 00:02:48,781.08764008
It's, yeah, it goes deeper than just looks.
37
00:02:48,781.08764008 --> 00:02:51,181.08764008
So he's been judging everyone about everything.
38
00:02:53,96.49664283 --> 00:03:01,325.5695368
In a way it was sort of depressing too, because you kept wondering what the hell would happen to all of them when they got out of school in college.
39
00:03:01,325.5695368 --> 00:03:05,547.09476733
I mean, you figured most of them would probably marry dopey guys.
40
00:03:05,880.50037295 --> 00:03:10,950.50037295
Guys that always talk about how many miles they get to a gallon in their goddamn cars.
41
00:03:12,259.18444686 --> 00:03:21,329.94706212
Guys that get sore and childish as hell if you beat them at golf or even just some stupid game like ping pong guys that are very mean.
42
00:03:21,689.94706212 --> 00:03:27,989.94706212
Guys that never read books, guys that are very boring, but I have to be careful about that.
43
00:03:28,349.94706212 --> 00:03:30,839.94706212
I mean about calling certain guys boars.
44
00:03:31,178.44799465 --> 00:03:33,218.44799465
I don't understand boring guys.
45
00:03:33,278.44799465 --> 00:03:34,58.44799465
I really don't.
46
00:03:34,921.6215222 --> 00:03:40,681.6215222
When I was at Elkton Hills, I roomed for about two months with this boy Harris McKim.
47
00:03:40,971.70548282 --> 00:03:46,221.70548282
He was very intelligent and all, but he was one of the biggest boars I ever met.
48
00:03:46,517.21233478 --> 00:03:50,717.21233478
He had one of those very raspy voices and he never stopped talking.
49
00:03:50,717.21233478 --> 00:03:56,804.5595279
Practically, And what was awful was he never said anything you wanted to hear in the first place.
50
00:03:57,84.5595279 --> 00:03:58,734.5595279
But he could do one thing.
51
00:03:58,884.5595279 --> 00:04:02,604.5595279
The son of a bitch could whistle better than anybody I ever heard.
52
00:04:02,934.5595279 --> 00:04:06,624.5595279
He'd be making his bed or hanging up stuff in the closet.
53
00:04:07,119.5595279 --> 00:04:09,459.5595279
He was always hanging up stuff in the closet.
54
00:04:09,549.5595279 --> 00:04:17,819.9391504
It drove me crazy and he'd be whistling while he did it, even if he wasn't, even if he wasn't talking in this raspy voice.
55
00:04:18,539.9391504 --> 00:04:21,817.13755457
I don't what it, you can't talk while you're whistling.
56
00:04:22,12.13755457 --> 00:04:23,992.13755457
be whistling while he did it.
57
00:04:24,172.13755457 --> 00:04:25,65.59582472
If he wasn't.
58
00:04:25,627.13755457 --> 00:04:26,167.13755457
God.
59
00:04:26,167.13755457 --> 00:04:33,148.71742257
The way he writes is You can leave that in there if you want.
60
00:04:34,761.30158704 --> 00:04:35,461.30158704
It really is.
61
00:04:37,104.28071851 --> 00:04:38,904.28071851
And he'd be whistling while he did it.
62
00:04:39,54.28071851 --> 00:04:47,73.15477847
If he wasn't talking in this raspy voice, he could even whistle classical stuff, but most of the time he just whistled jazz.
63
00:04:47,643.15477847 --> 00:04:59,457.26931437
He could take something very jazzy like tin roof blues and whistle it so nice and easy, right while he was hanging stuff up in the closet that it could kill you naturally.
64
00:04:59,847.26931437 --> 00:05:00,687.26931437
I never told him.
65
00:05:00,687.26931437 --> 00:05:02,637.26931437
I thought he was a terrific whistler.
66
00:05:03,528.94495547 --> 00:05:08,753.96345534
Where the hell is this book going? we need to know every goddamn thing that's happening in your head.
67
00:05:08,843.96345534 --> 00:05:13,434.43856707
I mean, it's that sentence that put me over the edge naturally.
68
00:05:13,434.43856707 --> 00:05:14,244.43856707
I never told him.
69
00:05:14,244.43856707 --> 00:05:15,984.43856707
I thought he was a terrific whistler.
70
00:05:16,775.66326935 --> 00:05:19,540.66326935
mean, you don't just go up to somebody and say.
71
00:05:20,20.66326935 --> 00:05:36,316.5182213
You are a terrific whistler, What if they're a terrific Whistler Holden? But I ruined with him for about two whole months, even though he bored me till I was half crazy, just because he was such a terrific whistler.
72
00:05:36,316.5182213 --> 00:05:37,606.5182213
The best I ever heard.
73
00:05:38,26.5182213 --> 00:05:40,6.5182213
So I don't know about boars.
74
00:05:40,306.5182213 --> 00:05:45,586.5182213
Maybe you shouldn't feel too sorry if you see some swell girl getting married to them.
75
00:05:46,75.01585344 --> 00:05:47,995.01585344
It's really none of your business.
76
00:05:48,336.88568576 --> 00:05:57,425.43349068
Why is he thinking about other people so much? I don't think I've ever thought about other people so much in my entire life.
77
00:05:58,85.43349068 --> 00:05:59,105.43349068
I'm not kidding.
78
00:05:59,356.46945629 --> 00:06:04,150.99040678
Have you? Is it normal? It's not normal.
79
00:06:04,868.37764904 --> 00:06:15,668.37764904
Maybe you shouldn't feel too sorry if you see some swell girl getting married to them, they don't hurt anybody, most of them, and maybe they're secretly all terrific Whistlers or something.
80
00:06:15,832.46855813 --> 00:06:17,572.46855813
Oh my God, dude, get off the whistling.
81
00:06:19,88.37764904 --> 00:06:20,678.37764904
Who the hell knows? Not me.
82
00:06:21,368.37764904 --> 00:06:24,188.37764904
Finally, oh God, something's gonna happen.
83
00:06:24,398.37764904 --> 00:06:24,968.37764904
Okay, great.
84
00:06:26,899.60122444 --> 00:06:31,849.60122444
Finally, old Sally started coming up the stairs and I started down to meet her.
85
00:06:32,509.60122444 --> 00:06:33,799.60122444
She looked terrific.
86
00:06:33,919.60122444 --> 00:06:34,939.60122444
She really did.
87
00:06:37,989.52480695 --> 00:06:38,559.52480695
get outta here.
88
00:06:38,559.52480695 --> 00:06:42,139.09994331
Harris M, I'll do the whistling around here.
89
00:06:44,400.37946737 --> 00:06:51,570.37946737
She had on this black coat and sort of a black beret, she hardly ever wore a hat, but that beret looked nice.
90
00:06:51,990.37946737 --> 00:06:56,280.37946737
The funny part is I felt like marrying her the minute I saw her.
91
00:06:56,820.37946737 --> 00:06:57,840.37946737
I'm crazy.
92
00:06:58,290.37946737 --> 00:06:59,645.37946737
I didn't even like her much.
93
00:07:00,435.37946737 --> 00:07:00,915.37946737
Yet.
94
00:07:00,945.37946737 --> 00:07:04,875.37946737
All of a sudden I felt like I was in love with her and wanted to marry her.
95
00:07:06,135.37946737 --> 00:07:07,425.37946737
Oh my God, this kid.
96
00:07:08,46.30795249 --> 00:07:09,756.30795249
I swear to God I'm crazy.
97
00:07:09,756.30795249 --> 00:07:10,121.30795249
I admit it.
98
00:07:11,16.30795249 --> 00:07:13,986.30795249
Holden, she said, it's marvelous to see you.
99
00:07:14,346.30795249 --> 00:07:15,666.30795249
It's been ages.
100
00:07:16,4.51024867 --> 00:07:19,424.51024867
She had one of those very loud, embarrassing voices.
101
00:07:19,424.51024867 --> 00:07:23,62.03191506
When you meet her somewhere, she got away with it because she was so.
102
00:07:23,309.17946815 --> 00:07:28,319.17946815
Damn good looking, but it always gave me a pain in the ass swell to see you.
103
00:07:28,319.17946815 --> 00:07:30,209.17946815
I said, I meant it to.
104
00:07:30,569.17946815 --> 00:07:33,761.65420653
How are you anyway? Absolutely marvelous.
105
00:07:33,941.65420653 --> 00:07:37,931.65420653
Am I late? I told her no, but she was around 10 minutes late.
106
00:07:38,51.65420653 --> 00:07:41,201.65420653
As a matter of fact, I didn't give a damn though.
107
00:07:41,596.65420653 --> 00:07:42,436.65420653
We better hurry.
108
00:07:42,436.65420653 --> 00:07:45,256.65420653
I said, the show starts at two 40.
109
00:07:45,736.65420653 --> 00:07:48,946.65420653
We started going down the stairs to where the taxis are.
110
00:07:49,424.38086427 --> 00:07:52,229.31060305
What are we going to see? She said, I don't know.
111
00:07:52,469.31060305 --> 00:07:55,229.31060305
The lunch, it's all I could get tickets for.
112
00:07:55,517.75809132 --> 00:07:55,697.75809132
The Lu.
113
00:07:56,297.75809132 --> 00:07:57,647.75809132
Oh, how marvelous.
114
00:07:57,827.75809132 --> 00:08:00,737.75809132
I told you she'd go mad when she heard it was for the Lu.
115
00:08:01,427.75809132 --> 00:08:04,637.75809132
Well, maybe she just says stuff like that because she's uncomfortable.
116
00:08:04,637.75809132 --> 00:08:09,595.12110319
Like sometimes when you don't really know a person, you kind of keep it really superficial, there.
117
00:08:09,595.12110319 --> 00:08:12,265.12110319
There is a level of phoniness to most people.
118
00:08:12,610.12110319 --> 00:08:13,150.12110319
Yeah.
119
00:08:13,328.00453088 --> 00:08:17,155.74234259
but Holden is being just as phony I mean, he kind of is.
120
00:08:17,155.74234259 --> 00:08:21,166.28402674
He doesn't like her and he is like, oh, good to see you, but that's the thing.
121
00:08:21,166.28402674 --> 00:08:26,847.66528273
I don't know if he's being phony, because earlier wants to marry her and he means it.
122
00:08:26,997.66528273 --> 00:08:28,317.66528273
He really does.
123
00:08:29,386.07452424 --> 00:08:31,126.07452424
I, he does write weird.
124
00:08:31,377.60951364 --> 00:08:32,542.60951364
He really does.
125
00:08:35,894.81642957 --> 00:08:39,569.22371954
We horsed around a little bit in the cab on the way over to the theater.
126
00:08:40,53.40283074 --> 00:08:47,433.40283074
At first she didn't want to because she had her lipstick on and all, but I was being seductive as hell and she didn't have any alternative.
127
00:08:47,973.35628306 --> 00:08:56,313.35628306
Then just to show you how big crazy I am, when we were coming out of this big clinch, I told her I loved her and all, Ugh.
128
00:08:56,682.67446893 --> 00:08:57,402.67446893
oh boy.
129
00:08:57,749.02796175 --> 00:09:01,919.02796175
It was a lie, of course, but the thing is, I meant it when I said it.
130
00:09:02,674.60427821 --> 00:09:04,234.60427821
Darling, I love you too.
131
00:09:04,234.60427821 --> 00:09:10,564.60427821
She said then right in the same damn breath, she said, promise me you'll let your hair grow.
132
00:09:12,919.60427821 --> 00:09:25,316.44759095
Promise me you'll let your hair What the heck? What are these two kids even? What are they even talking about? The show wasn't as bad as some I've seen.
133
00:09:25,777.78093493 --> 00:09:32,251.10520798
It was on the crappy side though it was about 500,000 years in the life of this one old couple.
134
00:09:32,354.40659095 --> 00:09:39,311.99178411
It starts out when they're young and all, and the girls' parents don't want her to marry the boy, but she marries him anyway.
135
00:09:39,612.37583414 --> 00:09:42,252.37583414
Then they keep getting older and older.
136
00:09:42,436.52208705 --> 00:09:46,876.52208705
The husband goes to war and the wife has this brother that's a drunkard.
137
00:09:47,446.52208705 --> 00:09:49,306.52208705
I couldn't get very interested.
138
00:09:49,696.52208705 --> 00:09:54,286.52208705
I mean, I didn't care too much when anybody in the family died or anything.
139
00:09:54,736.52208705 --> 00:09:56,866.52208705
They were all just a bunch of actors.
140
00:09:57,436.52208705 --> 00:10:00,466.52208705
The husband and wife were a pretty nice old couple.
141
00:10:00,706.52208705 --> 00:10:04,186.52208705
Very witty and all, but I couldn't get too interested in them.
142
00:10:04,513.0295206 --> 00:10:09,411.34279436
For one thing, they kept drinking tea or some goddamn thing all through the play All right.
143
00:10:09,411.34279436 --> 00:10:10,431.34279436
Well, I don't like that.
144
00:10:10,431.34279436 --> 00:10:12,111.34279436
I'll be, I'll be honest there.
145
00:10:12,111.34279436 --> 00:10:14,522.16073357
You lost me for one thing.
146
00:10:14,522.16073357 --> 00:10:16,682.16073357
They're drinking tea that pisses him off.
147
00:10:16,996.87649927 --> 00:10:18,136.87649927
He is a coffee man.
148
00:10:18,136.87649927 --> 00:10:18,916.87649927
Goddammit.
149
00:10:19,969.57566531 --> 00:10:21,259.57566531
Every time you saw them.
150
00:10:21,289.57566531 --> 00:10:30,409.57566531
Some Butler was shoving some tea in front of them, or the wife was pouring it for somebody and everybody kept coming in and going out all the time.
151
00:10:30,619.57566531 --> 00:10:33,949.57566531
You got dizzy watching people sit down and stand up.
152
00:10:34,639.57566531 --> 00:10:41,672.48458341
Alfred Lent and Lynn Fontain were the couple and they were very good, but I didn't like them much.
153
00:10:41,912.73604254 --> 00:10:43,52.73604254
They were different though.
154
00:10:43,82.73604254 --> 00:10:43,802.73604254
I'll say that.
155
00:10:44,364.60442494 --> 00:10:47,784.60442494
They didn't act like people and they didn't act like actors.
156
00:10:48,294.60442494 --> 00:10:49,734.60442494
It's hard to explain.
157
00:10:50,277.27106658 --> 00:10:55,749.52792111
They acted more like they were celebrities and all I mean, they were good, but they were too good.
158
00:10:56,139.52792111 --> 00:11:01,269.52792111
When one of them got finished making a speech, the other one said something very fast.
159
00:11:01,269.52792111 --> 00:11:07,119.52792111
Right after it, it was supposed to be like people really talking and interrupting each other and all.
160
00:11:07,780.38045102 --> 00:11:13,341.69547725
The trouble was they acted a little bit the way old Ernie down in the village plays piano.
161
00:11:13,690.15061598 --> 00:11:19,701.22490794
If you do something too good, then after a while if you don't watch it, you start showing off.
162
00:11:19,905.99482591 --> 00:11:21,855.99482591
So they're not humble or something.
163
00:11:22,15.83916501 --> 00:11:24,25.83916501
Yeah, they're just, they're too good to be humble.
164
00:11:24,385.83916501 --> 00:11:26,275.83916501
Meryl Streep does not have that problem.
165
00:11:27,275.83916501 --> 00:11:30,155.83916501
but anyway, they were the only ones in the show.
166
00:11:30,305.83916501 --> 00:11:34,685.83916501
The once, I mean, that looked like they had any real brains.
167
00:11:34,835.83916501 --> 00:11:36,125.83916501
I have to admit it.
168
00:11:36,785.83916501 --> 00:11:41,255.83916501
At the end of the first act, we went out with all the other jerks for a cigarette.
169
00:11:41,647.93777642 --> 00:11:43,87.93777642
What a deal that was.
170
00:11:43,345.6412617 --> 00:11:46,285.6412617
You never saw so many phonies in all your life.
171
00:11:46,635.36956995 --> 00:11:53,235.36956995
Everybody's smoking their ears off and talking about the play so that everybody could hear and know how sharp they were.
172
00:11:53,642.36866264 --> 00:11:56,438.30579545
Hmm, That is a very human thing.
173
00:11:56,563.30951488 --> 00:12:00,153.88214907
I don't, I wouldn't even want people to think I was smart, Don't worry about it, Jen.
174
00:12:00,573.88214907 --> 00:12:01,713.88214907
I think it's a big worry for you.
175
00:12:02,118.88214907 --> 00:12:02,718.88214907
I mean.
176
00:12:02,835.01073888 --> 00:12:12,883.76193955
But I do know exactly what he's talking about because I've heard, people doing that sort of thing, you know? It's interesting that hot takes were a thing back in the forties or fifties, I guess.
177
00:12:12,883.76193955 --> 00:12:14,515.07515464
I think they always were right.
178
00:12:14,575.07515464 --> 00:12:18,432.35415464
You think cavemen would get together after chasing a wild boar.
179
00:12:18,625.71427944 --> 00:12:23,245.71427944
This is the right way to use a spear when you're trying to get a mastodon.
180
00:12:23,318.69706341 --> 00:12:29,378.69706341
Did you see when Unc, UNC tried to get that boar, how he held the No, that's not how you do it.
181
00:12:29,378.69706341 --> 00:12:30,458.69706341
Oh, I wouldn't have done it.
182
00:12:30,463.69706341 --> 00:12:32,348.69706341
It was, it was marvelous though.
183
00:12:32,528.69706341 --> 00:12:32,798.69706341
Oh.
184
00:12:36,381.54023023 --> 00:12:40,371.54023023
Some dopey movie actor was standing near us having a cigarette.
185
00:12:40,821.54023023 --> 00:12:48,148.16123023
I don't know his name, but he always plays the part of a guy in a war movie that gets yellow before it's time to go over the top.
186
00:12:48,502.25712477 --> 00:12:57,479.99492758
He was with some gorgeous blonde, and the two of them were trying to be very blase and all like as if he didn't even know people were looking at him.
187
00:12:58,94.99492758 --> 00:12:59,204.99492758
Modest as hell.
188
00:12:59,654.99492758 --> 00:13:01,304.99492758
I got a big bang out of it.
189
00:13:01,748.76020241 --> 00:13:07,598.76020241
Old Sally didn't talk much Except to rave about the lu because she was busy being charming.
190
00:13:08,318.76020241 --> 00:13:21,465.00226425
Then all of a sudden she saw some jerk she knew on the other side of the lobby, some guy in one of those very dark gray flannel suits, and one of those checkered vests, strictly Ivy League.
191
00:13:21,870.00226425 --> 00:13:22,920.00226425
Big deal.
192
00:13:23,190.00226425 --> 00:13:28,200.00226425
He was standing next to the wall, smoking himself to death and looking bored as hell.
193
00:13:28,812.48638792 --> 00:13:32,382.48638792
Old Sally kept saying, I know that boy from somewhere.
194
00:13:32,832.48638792 --> 00:13:34,212.48638792
She always knew somebody.
195
00:13:34,242.48638792 --> 00:13:39,745.8627043
Any place you took her or thought she did, she kept saying that till I got bored as hell.
196
00:13:39,953.37866491 --> 00:13:46,398.47426
And I said to her, why don't you go over and give him a big soul kiss? If you know him, hell enjoy it.
197
00:13:46,953.47426 --> 00:13:48,843.47426
She got sore when I said that.
198
00:13:49,122.9652062 --> 00:13:53,112.9652062
finally though the jerk noticed her and came over and said, hello.
199
00:13:53,519.33470005 --> 00:13:55,619.33470005
You should have seen the way they said hello.
200
00:13:55,834.74874876 --> 00:13:58,924.74874876
You'd have thought they hadn't seen each other in 20 years.
201
00:13:59,356.46853317 --> 00:14:04,306.46853317
You'd have thought they'd taken baths in the same bathtub or something when they were little kids.
202
00:14:04,936.46853317 --> 00:14:05,956.46853317
Old buddy Rus.
203
00:14:06,376.46853317 --> 00:14:07,756.46853317
It was nauseating.
204
00:14:07,901.10500216 --> 00:14:08,201.10500216
Okay.
205
00:14:08,201.10500216 --> 00:14:10,691.10500216
I, I have to be honest, I don't like where this date is going.
206
00:14:10,691.10500216 --> 00:14:13,151.10500216
I don't really care that much about this date.
207
00:14:13,391.10500216 --> 00:14:14,921.10500216
I, I, I think he's confused.
208
00:14:16,451.10500216 --> 00:14:23,801.10500216
I don't know if she's confused, but I don't know where we are right now because he said he doesn't like her, but then he wants to marry her.
209
00:14:23,921.10500216 --> 00:14:26,591.10500216
But now here comes some guy that she knows.
210
00:14:27,281.10500216 --> 00:14:37,193.33106531
Is this gonna be some drama? Some drama? Jennifer, is there gonna be drama in here where some guy now steals old Sally from Holden? Old Sally.
211
00:14:37,193.33106531 --> 00:14:47,991.14184421
Jennifer, the girl he wants to marry but doesn't Right, The funny part was they probably met each other just once at some phony party.
212
00:14:48,420.02713426 --> 00:14:52,841.92881144
Finally, when they were all done slobbing around, old Sally introduced us.
213
00:14:53,689.30590792 --> 00:14:57,229.30590792
His name was George something I don't even remember.
214
00:14:57,649.30590792 --> 00:14:59,209.30590792
And he went to Andover.
215
00:14:59,869.30590792 --> 00:15:01,339.30590792
Big, big deal.
216
00:15:01,639.30590792 --> 00:15:05,149.30590792
You should have seen him when old Sally asked him how he liked the play.
217
00:15:05,432.46997163 --> 00:15:10,682.46997163
He was the kind of phony that have to give themselves room when they answer somebody's question.
218
00:15:11,82.61764821 --> 00:15:14,772.61764821
He stepped back and stepped right on the lady's foot behind him.
219
00:15:15,196.89642188 --> 00:15:16,751.89642188
I know dudes like this.
220
00:15:17,271.89642188 --> 00:15:19,31.89642188
Everything's a big production.
221
00:15:20,181.56123495 --> 00:15:23,241.56123495
He probably broke every toe in her body.
222
00:15:23,422.44093017 --> 00:15:25,871.78371572
What Every toe in her body.
223
00:15:26,299.23065249 --> 00:15:32,744.23065249
is that supposed to be like? That So we're talking about the ones we know of and the ones we don't know of.
224
00:15:34,387.10041997 --> 00:15:37,777.10041997
what toes, do you have in your body other than the ones we know of.
225
00:15:38,989.78591493 --> 00:15:45,229.78591493
He said the play itself was no masterpiece, but that the lu, of course, were absolute angels.
226
00:15:45,468.33176018 --> 00:15:47,598.33176018
Angels for Christ's sake.
227
00:15:47,958.33176018 --> 00:15:48,948.33176018
That killed me.
228
00:15:49,458.33176018 --> 00:15:53,898.33176018
Then he and old Sally started talking about a lot of people they both knew.
229
00:15:54,498.33176018 --> 00:15:58,38.33176018
It was the phoniest conversation you ever heard in your life.
230
00:15:58,371.48548486 --> 00:16:04,971.48548486
They both kept thinking of places as fast as they could and they'd think of somebody that lived there and mentioned their name.
231
00:16:05,721.48548486 --> 00:16:09,471.48548486
I was all set to puke when it was time to go sit down again.
232
00:16:09,981.48548486 --> 00:16:11,1.48548486
I really was.
233
00:16:11,481.48548486 --> 00:16:17,601.48548486
And then when the next act was over, they continued their goddamn boring conversation.
234
00:16:17,991.48548486 --> 00:16:21,985.9975132
Is he just like standing there, you think George? The foot stepper.
235
00:16:21,985.9975132 --> 00:16:26,245.9975132
Why are you here? Why are you part of this equation? Gotta understand.
236
00:16:26,275.9975132 --> 00:16:32,777.62104031
Holden moves fast, Jennifer, this is day two, I suppose, less than seven hours ago.
237
00:16:33,66.86174272 --> 00:16:36,184.85504031
A prostitute and her pimp were beating him up.
238
00:16:36,184.85504031 --> 00:16:49,823.9863491
Do you understand? He, this is not a great date so Yeah, the worst part was the jerk had one of those very phony Ivy League voices, one of those very tired, snobby voices.
239
00:16:50,13.0467762 --> 00:16:51,813.0467762
He sounded just like a girl.
240
00:16:52,7.9944544 --> 00:16:55,427.9944544
He didn't hesitate to horn in on my date, the bastard.
241
00:16:55,748.8293839 --> 00:17:06,771.0629867
I even thought for a minute that he was going to get in the goddamn cab with us when the show was over because he walked about two blocks with us, but he had to meet a bunch of phonies for cocktails.
242
00:17:06,771.0629867 --> 00:17:08,85.0710919
He said, wow.
243
00:17:08,175.0710919 --> 00:17:09,925.154363
So third wheel.
244
00:17:09,925.154363 --> 00:17:12,897.252373
and it's, and it's a guy, she seems to like, Yeah.
245
00:17:12,963.2324723 --> 00:17:13,803.2324723
Not good.
246
00:17:13,863.2324723 --> 00:17:15,3.2324723
Not too good.
247
00:17:15,385.3282637 --> 00:17:25,135.3282637
I could see them all sitting around in some bar with their goddamn checkered vests, criticizing shows and books and women in those tired, snobby voices.
248
00:17:25,383.2612031 --> 00:17:26,43.2612031
They kill me.
249
00:17:26,43.2612031 --> 00:17:26,883.2612031
Those guys.
250
00:17:26,999.9833838 --> 00:17:31,524.6213721
I sort of hated old Sally by the time we got in the cab Jen.
251
00:17:33,731.7743365 --> 00:17:38,81.7743365
after listening to that phony Andover bastard for about 10 hours.
252
00:17:38,357.3594457 --> 00:17:45,8.3202493
I was all set to take her home and all I really was, but she said, I have a marvelous idea.
253
00:17:45,338.3202493 --> 00:17:53,5.9721529
She was always having a marvelous idea and of section Oh, you end on another cliffhanger.
254
00:17:54,97.2069642 --> 00:17:56,887.2069642
I think we should have a threesome with George here.
255
00:17:56,887.2069642 --> 00:18:00,751.7366236
Wouldn't it be marvelous? Yes, it would be marvelous.
256
00:18:03,193.8473916 --> 00:18:06,53.8473916
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.
257
00:18:06,103.8473916 --> 00:18:11,929.1200198
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? Well, the potential threesome.
258
00:18:12,289.1200198 --> 00:18:13,219.1200198
was your idea.
259
00:18:15,4.1200198 --> 00:18:15,244.1200198
Right.
260
00:18:15,244.1200198 --> 00:18:16,504.1200198
It's a damn good idea.
261
00:18:16,564.1200198 --> 00:18:18,769.1200198
It really Oh man.
262
00:18:19,924.5228298 --> 00:18:25,354.5228298
it's so hard to find things that are man worthy because it's just a fun book.
263
00:18:25,414.5228298 --> 00:18:25,924.5228298
Yeah.
264
00:18:25,924.5228298 --> 00:18:31,373.0040326
There's, I mean, there's not even a, a basket weaving bosom woman in here.
265
00:18:31,373.0040326 --> 00:18:33,863.0040326
there was a little gawking at women, but.
266
00:18:34,154.75961 --> 00:18:44,594.75961
You know, while he was waiting for old Sally to show up, but I mean, again, he's a horned up young, keen kid guy, and he's surrounded by a bunch of school girls.
267
00:18:44,594.75961 --> 00:18:54,70.1903654
And keep in mind, it seems like old Pencey is a place for guys, right? It's a boys school, I don't remember girls being there.
268
00:18:54,70.1903654 --> 00:19:12,784.12162
That's why when Jane showed up for a date, it was like, oh, what's going on here? Even when we try hard, Ron DeSantis, when we try as hard as we can, moms for Liberty, we cannot find anything that could be remotely band worthy in here.
269
00:19:13,204.12162 --> 00:19:14,164.12162
And you ladies.
270
00:19:14,679.12162 --> 00:19:20,559.12162
And you, Ron, show up and come up with like 80 things you can find Dan.
271
00:19:20,859.12162 --> 00:19:21,309.12162
Dan, Dan.
272
00:19:21,309.12162 --> 00:19:22,659.12162
I don't like Danda.
273
00:19:23,49.12162 --> 00:19:23,979.12162
We can't live.
274
00:19:23,979.12162 --> 00:19:24,969.12162
Damn Dan.
275
00:19:29,857.076092 --> 00:19:33,466.0186518
Robots log thoughts on being afraid, marvelous ideas.
276
00:19:33,586.0186518 --> 00:19:36,196.0186518
And the moment you realize you mean the lie you just told.
277
00:19:36,677.6332266 --> 00:19:38,567.6332266
Holden told Sally Hayes, he loved her.
278
00:19:38,807.6332266 --> 00:19:43,7.6332266
It was a lie, he said so himself, but then he said he meant it when he said it.
279
00:19:43,430.0318265 --> 00:19:46,790.0318265
I have been trying to file this under cowardice for the last 40 minutes.
280
00:19:46,970.0318265 --> 00:19:51,67.7809688
It keeps getting rejected because it's not cowardice, it's something worse.
281
00:19:51,262.7809688 --> 00:19:59,122.7809688
It's a kid who wants so badly to feel something real that he'll say the truest thing he knows to the wrong person just to hear what it sounds like coming out of his mouth.
282
00:20:00,124.9214345 --> 00:20:02,704.9214345
Jennifer noticed Sally might not be performing at all.
283
00:20:02,824.9214345 --> 00:20:05,764.9214345
Maybe she says marvelous because she's uncomfortable.
284
00:20:05,824.9214345 --> 00:20:11,104.9214345
Maybe the beret and the loud voice and the phoniness are just a girl trying to survive the same awkward machinery.
285
00:20:11,104.9214345 --> 00:20:15,147.7260492
Holden is Dan, almost agreed, then caught himself.
286
00:20:15,732.7260492 --> 00:20:17,82.7260492
Then circled back again.
287
00:20:17,635.4567927 --> 00:20:20,155.4567927
Neither of them could decide, neither could Holden.
288
00:20:20,948.1138034 --> 00:20:23,918.1138034
Here's the thing the book Banner should worry about in this chapter.
289
00:20:24,241.508696 --> 00:20:26,671.508696
Not the horsing around in the cab, not the leg.
290
00:20:26,671.508696 --> 00:20:32,918.5936893
Watching in the lobby, a teenager learning in real time that you can say something you don't mean and mean it at the same time.
291
00:20:33,532.210057 --> 00:20:36,562.210057
That the wall between honest and dishonest isn't a wall at all.
292
00:20:36,877.4868664 --> 00:20:41,707.4868664
It's a feeling that changes depending on who's standing in front of you and how badly you need them to stay.
293
00:20:42,442.1733978 --> 00:20:45,442.1733978
Adults spend entire careers pretending that wall is solid.
294
00:20:45,897.7265475 --> 00:20:48,447.7265475
This book hands a teenager, a flashlight and says.
295
00:20:48,652.7265475 --> 00:20:49,462.7265475
Look closer.
296
00:20:50,297.7209177 --> 00:20:52,907.7209177
Standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rocklin.
297
00:20:54,237.7209177 --> 00:20:54,457.7209177
Woo.
298
00:21:22,74.4694256 --> 00:21:22,824.4694256
Hello, Jen.
299
00:21:22,824.4694256 --> 00:21:23,604.4694256
Hello, Dan.
300
00:21:23,604.4694256 --> 00:21:24,24.4694256
Hello.
301
00:21:24,24.4694256 --> 00:21:26,634.4694256
Scary book Look at this guy.
302
00:21:27,24.4694256 --> 00:21:27,594.4694256
Hey.
303
00:21:27,594.4694256 --> 00:21:28,14.4694256
Yeah.
304
00:21:28,14.4694256 --> 00:21:28,824.4694256
Hey, I'm here.
305
00:21:29,14.4694256 --> 00:21:33,294.4694256
We don't always report overseas, good news.
306
00:21:33,694.4694256 --> 00:21:38,464.4694256
but I will tell you there is some from across the pond in Mary, old England.
307
00:21:39,4.4694256 --> 00:21:46,414.4694256
And it comes in the form of, I think, a particularly well written editorial from The Times of London.
308
00:21:46,864.4694256 --> 00:21:57,164.4694256
Now, the name of the editorial writer, set off Moms for Liberty a little bit because her name is Libby Pervs.
309
00:21:57,294.4694256 --> 00:22:01,104.4694256
it's spelled L-I-B-B-Y-P-U-R-V-S.
310
00:22:01,134.4694256 --> 00:22:02,394.4694256
Maybe it's Pervez.
311
00:22:02,854.4694256 --> 00:22:08,784.4694256
but I think Libby Pervs, I mean that's that, certainly if you're a mom for Liberty, that's how you're gonna read it.
312
00:22:09,114.4694256 --> 00:22:13,734.4694256
But obviously just a name is problematic for, for them.
313
00:22:14,15.0846202 --> 00:22:21,552.9141449
But boy, she is a great writer and she brings up an interesting incident, which is an attempted book ban in the uk.
314
00:22:21,882.9141449 --> 00:22:35,22.9141449
Last week came the eye roll evoking story of a secondary school library in Greater Manchester, removing 193 books as inappropriate likely to upset pupils and thus a safeguarding risk.
315
00:22:35,562.9141449 --> 00:22:44,957.9141449
Moreover, the school admits it used AI to select the villainous volumes, though that is crazy in and of itself that you would like, like let like.
316
00:22:45,687.9141449 --> 00:22:53,352.9141449
A, a robot, for goodness sakes, like select books and think that they was gonna do any kind of a good job of doing a book ban.
317
00:22:53,352.9141449 --> 00:22:57,122.4921943
I mean, God, we know how robots are, don't we? He's making fun of you.
318
00:22:59,256.8097598 --> 00:23:15,837.7535524
The books identified as menacing included Michelle Obama's memoir, the Schlock Erotic Twilight Series, an Expose of Incel Culture, and a Pictorial version of 1984, which of course you guys have read on this show now.
319
00:23:15,927.7535524 --> 00:23:21,987.7535524
The Manchester School insisted that AI was broadly accurate in spotting mentions of racism.
320
00:23:22,77.7535524 --> 00:23:29,187.7535524
Torture and mature romantic themes and sexual tension from which they desired to protect young minds.
321
00:23:29,447.9178514 --> 00:23:42,617.9178514
Maybe they worried about parents complaining as in Orwell's, a clergy man's daughter when a teacher is monsters by low church parents for explaining to the children about McDuff being untimely ripped from the womb.
322
00:23:42,840.2143309 --> 00:23:45,984.4366906
okay, so in Macbeth, the three witches.
323
00:23:46,79.314393 --> 00:23:53,297.5528119
They get together and they tell Macbeth that you shall never be killed by any man of woman born.
324
00:23:53,952.5528119 --> 00:24:03,28.0840037
Ah, trick is Macduff, who ultimately kills Macbeth was from his mother's womb, untimely, ripped, therefore, you know, a cesarean.
325
00:24:03,238.0840037 --> 00:24:07,798.0840037
So she was not technically, he was not technically of woman born.
326
00:24:07,929.3563944 --> 00:24:09,549.3563944
that's bullshit by the way.
327
00:24:10,374.3563944 --> 00:24:11,454.3563944
No, it is bullshit by the way.
328
00:24:11,454.3563944 --> 00:24:18,602.6788161
It's, it's, I mean, you know, what are you gonna do when like the three like weird sisters show up? That's my mom's opinion about the way I had my babies.
329
00:24:18,602.6788161 --> 00:24:20,549.1136524
She's like, you didn't give birth.
330
00:24:20,639.1136524 --> 00:24:23,879.1136524
What? You know? I never told you that.
331
00:24:24,479.1136524 --> 00:24:26,519.1136524
You gotta squeeze him Yeah.
332
00:24:26,609.1136524 --> 00:24:28,19.1136524
you have to be in pain.
333
00:24:28,499.1136524 --> 00:24:29,789.1136524
Yes, exactly.
334
00:24:29,789.1136524 --> 00:24:29,849.1136524
I.
335
00:24:30,89.1136524 --> 00:24:31,199.1136524
Anyways, continue.
336
00:24:32,279.1136524 --> 00:24:33,929.1136524
Thank you for that digression.
337
00:24:34,319.1136524 --> 00:24:51,869.1136524
We have moved on from shrinking bigotry about wombs, but today's schools still fear similar parental outrage over anything from religion and cartoons to race or gender politics, well let schools quail and children's book publishers run scared of their own shadow.
338
00:24:51,869.1136524 --> 00:24:58,784.1136524
But the hill I die on is that no child, especially over 10 needs protecting from any book they open.
339
00:24:59,562.4469858 --> 00:25:04,239.1136524
Some will always be dard flicking and clicking distractedly now.
340
00:25:04,299.1136524 --> 00:25:09,299.1136524
Yeah, that's, that's, that's a little bit interesting there because obviously she's saying that essentially some kids are dumb.
341
00:25:09,299.1136524 --> 00:25:10,999.1136524
I think that's a little, that's a little harsh.
342
00:25:10,999.1136524 --> 00:25:12,529.1136524
It's a numbers game.
343
00:25:14,577.4469858 --> 00:25:15,177.4469858
well.
344
00:25:15,252.4469858 --> 00:25:16,32.4469858
a few dummies.
345
00:25:16,32.4469858 --> 00:25:18,786.3436656
What are you gonna do? I I mean, look how Donald turned out.
346
00:25:18,786.3436656 --> 00:25:23,38.1415153
I mean, clearly there are some who, who turn out in a certain way, I know words.
347
00:25:23,38.1415153 --> 00:25:25,953.1415153
I have the best words, but there's no better words than stupid.
348
00:25:26,647.6661722 --> 00:25:32,17.6661722
flicking and clicking distractedly in an attention economy designed by predatory billionaires.
349
00:25:33,202.6661722 --> 00:25:46,612.6661722
But at a time when private reading has declined, we should cheer any young auto didact who bravely roams a library facing up to unfamiliar phrases, dialogues, feelings, and ideas.
350
00:25:46,792.6661722 --> 00:26:07,105.6543342
God, I love the way that, Libby pers writes, as to a politically un cleansed library causing emotional upset that ship has sailed Unless they live in a hermetically closed minority culture, any kid will, by secondary school have been exposed to horrible violence and torture on screen, on the evening news, and often with laughing casualness and thrillers.
351
00:26:07,675.6543342 --> 00:26:16,915.6543342
They're also likely to have seen pornography, even if on someone else's phone, much of it, violent or perverse, ugliness and wickedness rolls towards their eyes every day.
352
00:26:16,915.6543342 --> 00:26:18,535.6543342
Unprocessed and demanding.
353
00:26:18,535.6543342 --> 00:26:19,135.6543342
No proper reflection.
354
00:26:20,625.9971942 --> 00:26:33,795.9971942
The answer is not to put up leaky barriers, but to create chances to discuss anything they're startled by not least if their brain has taken it in more efficiently from reading than from fleeting pixels.
355
00:26:34,395.9971942 --> 00:26:43,894.6888695
If parents won't, teachers can discuss debate, challenge bad ideas from wrong books without ever condemning their curiosity that read them.
356
00:26:44,156.5030192 --> 00:26:48,176.5030192
Whether it's Daad or amp, Barbara Cartland, or Charlotte's Web.
357
00:26:48,547.6632036 --> 00:26:51,697.6632036
Teach present values, but labeling as inappropriate.
358
00:26:51,697.6632036 --> 00:26:55,27.6632036
Any book outside an approvable template is poisonous.
359
00:26:55,262.1355961 --> 00:26:57,152.1355961
So is censorship of past writing.
360
00:26:57,328.781006 --> 00:26:57,388.781006
Hmm.
361
00:26:57,688.8439876 --> 00:26:58,918.8439876
Books are exploration.
362
00:26:59,848.8439876 --> 00:27:07,288.8439876
Libraries, worlds safeguarding is necessary against bike accidents, evil adults, and addictive algorithms, not books.
363
00:27:07,648.8439876 --> 00:27:17,618.8439876
Perhaps we should shut every child phoneless into a library for an hour or so, then chat about what they found, which even the dullest always will.
364
00:27:18,53.8439876 --> 00:27:23,33.8439876
So anyway, I love Libby Pervs, you know, name aside.
365
00:27:23,403.8439876 --> 00:27:39,208.8439876
I think it's fantastic and she, she really encapsulates why it's so important to let kids read, to let them explore and, and engage with material, and understand it with, you know, and be guided about like the good things and the bad things about it, rather than just keeping it from it.
366
00:27:39,718.8439876 --> 00:27:47,188.8439876
And that is why teachers are so important, because teachers have gone to school to learn how to teach and how to build curriculum.
367
00:27:47,266.3573235 --> 00:27:48,616.3573235
That makes sense.
368
00:27:48,815.2388519 --> 00:27:56,645.2388519
But thank God you are not the one making the curriculum for the entire society or your local community.
369
00:27:56,795.2388519 --> 00:28:03,354.7628564
You can for your kid, but that's why it's so important that teachers be allowed to do what teachers do.
370
00:28:04,25.3609958 --> 00:28:11,425.1399274
Everyone go find, be Wolves, podcast, good news for lefties and America, and then go do yourself a favor.
371
00:28:11,425.1399274 --> 00:28:13,555.1399274
Start the day out with good news.
372
00:28:13,555.1399274 --> 00:28:14,665.1399274
That means something.
373
00:28:15,35.1399274 --> 00:28:16,385.1399274
thank you so much, Dan.
374
00:28:16,385.1399274 --> 00:28:17,375.1399274
Thank you so much, Jen.
375
00:28:17,375.1399274 --> 00:28:18,545.1399274
I, I appreciate it.
376
00:28:18,545.1399274 --> 00:28:23,825.1399274
And uh, guys, we're here for you if you need some good news on good news for lefties.
377
00:28:23,885.1399274 --> 00:28:26,300.1399274
All the best look at this guy.
378
00:28:26,455.1399274 --> 00:28:27,320.1399274
It is very slick.
379
00:28:35,293.0640624 --> 00:28:37,453.0640624
From band worthy to binge worthy.
380
00:28:40,625.0640624 --> 00:28:41,885.0640624
He was a young Marine.
381
00:28:42,245.0640624 --> 00:28:44,195.0640624
She didn't care about convention.
382
00:28:44,465.0640624 --> 00:28:45,965.0640624
They made a life together.
383
00:28:46,295.0640624 --> 00:28:55,985.0640624
Then one night the Marine died, and then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn.
384
00:28:56,345.0640624 --> 00:29:05,645.0640624
I'm Josh Menowitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dateline Search Trace of Suspicion to start listening now.
385
00:29:09,917.0640624 --> 00:29:10,847.0640624
Simone Sanders.
386
00:29:10,847.0640624 --> 00:29:22,517.0640624
Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House and I reported on it, and now we're friends and colleagues and on our new podcast, Ms.
387
00:29:22,517.0640624 --> 00:29:23,807.0640624
Now presents Clock It.
388
00:29:23,867.0640624 --> 00:29:27,497.0640624
We are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.
389
00:29:27,497.0640624 --> 00:29:28,2.0640624
Clock.
390
00:29:28,2.0640624 --> 00:29:33,192.0640624
It is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news, so you can start to clock it too.
391
00:29:33,552.0640624 --> 00:29:33,822.0640624
Ms.
392
00:29:33,822.0640624 --> 00:29:35,142.0640624
Now presents, clock it.
393
00:29:35,292.0640624 --> 00:29:39,162.0640624
Listen now wherever you get your podcasts, new episodes drop Thursdays.
394
00:29:39,707.0640624 --> 00:29:40,487.0640624
All right.
395
00:29:40,547.0640624 --> 00:29:43,127.0640624
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day.
396
00:29:43,127.0640624 --> 00:29:44,357.0640624
Scary book people.
397
00:29:44,537.0640624 --> 00:29:47,807.0640624
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.
398
00:29:47,867.0640624 --> 00:29:52,7.0640624
Just head on over to bandcamp podcast.com/bluesky.
399
00:29:52,7.0640624 --> 00:29:54,317.0640624
And remember, that's banned with two ends.
400
00:29:54,617.0640624 --> 00:30:00,497.0640624
And look just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want.
401
00:30:00,497.0640624 --> 00:30:05,507.0640624
So follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.
402
00:30:05,507.0640624 --> 00:30:06,467.0640624
I think you'll like it.
403
00:30:06,917.0640624 --> 00:30:07,367.0640624
Yes.
404
00:30:07,397.0640624 --> 00:30:08,747.0640624
Little quid pro quo.
405
00:30:09,392.0640624 --> 00:30:14,492.0640624
Bandcamp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.
406
00:30:14,912.0640624 --> 00:30:22,442.0640624
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use, and finally, America isn't what it used to be.
407
00:30:22,442.0640624 --> 00:30:26,552.0640624
So be careful out there and resist when it matters.
00:00:03,854.5454545455 --> 00:00:05,294.5454545455
Welcome to Band Camp.
2
00:00:05,294.5454545455 --> 00:00:06,254.5454545455
I'm Jennifer.
3
00:00:06,463.6363636364 --> 00:00:13,123.636363636
I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read band books and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.
4
00:00:16,165.454545455 --> 00:00:20,5.454545455
This season, we're reading The Catcher in the Rye by JD Salinger.
5
00:00:20,5.454545455 --> 00:00:27,25.454545455
It's a classic book, and you can consider this a quick spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book out.
6
00:00:27,25.454545455 --> 00:00:28,375.454545455
Loud word for word.
7
00:00:28,772.886152376 --> 00:00:31,952.886152376
Now, if you're new here, you're totally fine starting out here.
8
00:00:31,952.886152376 --> 00:00:44,75.017240936
We're gonna get you oriented real quick, and if you get confused, don't worry about it, because we're probably gonna be confused too, because we've never read the book either, but that's why we have a secret weapon.
9
00:00:44,345.017240936 --> 00:00:46,145.017240936
Let's bring them in here, buddy.
10
00:00:46,145.017240936 --> 00:00:48,95.017240936
Boy, roll it it comes.
11
00:00:49,301.355439009 --> 00:00:50,441.355439009
Look at this guy.
12
00:00:50,441.355439009 --> 00:01:02,801.355439009
We have ourselves a fact checking robot so we don't spread any fake news or alternative facts, buddy, boy, fill everyone in on where we left off last time.
13
00:01:04,928.179126144 --> 00:01:12,818.179126144
Previously on Band Camp Holden Caulfield walked to a museum he used to love as a kid, stood outside and wouldn't go in for a million bucks.
14
00:01:12,968.179126144 --> 00:01:19,748.179126144
Then he got in a cap to meet a girl he doesn't even like because that's what you do when you can't go backward and you're afraid to go forward.
15
00:01:20,558.179126144 --> 00:01:23,978.179126144
Dan said, trying so hard not to be phony as its own kind of phony.
16
00:01:24,278.179126144 --> 00:01:25,238.179126144
Jennifer agreed.
17
00:01:25,358.179126144 --> 00:01:26,288.179126144
Neither of them noticed.
18
00:01:26,288.179126144 --> 00:01:28,448.179126144
They just described most of the adults they know.
19
00:01:28,973.179126144 --> 00:01:34,163.179126144
There's a particular kind of lie that's only dangerous because the person telling it means every word.
20
00:01:34,673.179126144 --> 00:01:36,113.179126144
Take it away, Jennifer.
21
00:01:36,354.000557372 --> 00:01:36,574.000557372
Woo.
22
00:01:36,862.47530795 --> 00:01:37,892.47530795
Thank you, robot.
23
00:01:37,992.47530795 --> 00:01:40,647.47530795
And with that being said, scary book people.
24
00:01:40,797.47530795 --> 00:01:41,547.47530795
Let's start.
25
00:01:41,855.27275237 --> 00:01:46,186.67147458
Chapter 17 of JD Salinger's, the catcher in the rye.
26
00:01:51,510.84778718 --> 00:02:00,693.27134997
I was way early when I got there, so I just sat down on one of those leather couches right near the clock in the lobby and watched the girls.
27
00:02:01,77.89196741 --> 00:02:10,17.89196741
A lot of schools were home for a vacation already, and there were about a million girls sitting and standing around waiting for their dates to show up.
28
00:02:20,295.56222557 --> 00:02:21,735.56222557
to sit there and watch the girls.
29
00:02:21,825.56222557 --> 00:02:22,935.56222557
Okay, whatever.
30
00:02:23,5.31291557 --> 00:02:24,380.31291557
Not if you're AED up teen.
31
00:02:25,380.31291557 --> 00:02:31,358.99896882
I guess girls with their legs crossed, girls with their legs not crossed.
32
00:02:31,718.99896882 --> 00:02:37,88.99896882
Girls with terrific legs, girls with lousy legs, girls that looked like swell girls.
33
00:02:37,508.99896882 --> 00:02:40,238.99896882
Girls that looked like they'd be bitches if you knew them.
34
00:02:40,538.99896882 --> 00:02:43,448.99896882
It was really nice sightseeing, if you know what I mean.
35
00:02:43,671.20413595 --> 00:02:46,736.08764008
But he really is judgmental judging what they look like.
36
00:02:46,781.08764008 --> 00:02:48,781.08764008
It's, yeah, it goes deeper than just looks.
37
00:02:48,781.08764008 --> 00:02:51,181.08764008
So he's been judging everyone about everything.
38
00:02:53,96.49664283 --> 00:03:01,325.5695368
In a way it was sort of depressing too, because you kept wondering what the hell would happen to all of them when they got out of school in college.
39
00:03:01,325.5695368 --> 00:03:05,547.09476733
I mean, you figured most of them would probably marry dopey guys.
40
00:03:05,880.50037295 --> 00:03:10,950.50037295
Guys that always talk about how many miles they get to a gallon in their goddamn cars.
41
00:03:12,259.18444686 --> 00:03:21,329.94706212
Guys that get sore and childish as hell if you beat them at golf or even just some stupid game like ping pong guys that are very mean.
42
00:03:21,689.94706212 --> 00:03:27,989.94706212
Guys that never read books, guys that are very boring, but I have to be careful about that.
43
00:03:28,349.94706212 --> 00:03:30,839.94706212
I mean about calling certain guys boars.
44
00:03:31,178.44799465 --> 00:03:33,218.44799465
I don't understand boring guys.
45
00:03:33,278.44799465 --> 00:03:34,58.44799465
I really don't.
46
00:03:34,921.6215222 --> 00:03:40,681.6215222
When I was at Elkton Hills, I roomed for about two months with this boy Harris McKim.
47
00:03:40,971.70548282 --> 00:03:46,221.70548282
He was very intelligent and all, but he was one of the biggest boars I ever met.
48
00:03:46,517.21233478 --> 00:03:50,717.21233478
He had one of those very raspy voices and he never stopped talking.
49
00:03:50,717.21233478 --> 00:03:56,804.5595279
Practically, And what was awful was he never said anything you wanted to hear in the first place.
50
00:03:57,84.5595279 --> 00:03:58,734.5595279
But he could do one thing.
51
00:03:58,884.5595279 --> 00:04:02,604.5595279
The son of a bitch could whistle better than anybody I ever heard.
52
00:04:02,934.5595279 --> 00:04:06,624.5595279
He'd be making his bed or hanging up stuff in the closet.
53
00:04:07,119.5595279 --> 00:04:09,459.5595279
He was always hanging up stuff in the closet.
54
00:04:09,549.5595279 --> 00:04:17,819.9391504
It drove me crazy and he'd be whistling while he did it, even if he wasn't, even if he wasn't talking in this raspy voice.
55
00:04:18,539.9391504 --> 00:04:21,817.13755457
I don't what it, you can't talk while you're whistling.
56
00:04:22,12.13755457 --> 00:04:23,992.13755457
be whistling while he did it.
57
00:04:24,172.13755457 --> 00:04:25,65.59582472
If he wasn't.
58
00:04:25,627.13755457 --> 00:04:26,167.13755457
God.
59
00:04:26,167.13755457 --> 00:04:33,148.71742257
The way he writes is You can leave that in there if you want.
60
00:04:34,761.30158704 --> 00:04:35,461.30158704
It really is.
61
00:04:37,104.28071851 --> 00:04:38,904.28071851
And he'd be whistling while he did it.
62
00:04:39,54.28071851 --> 00:04:47,73.15477847
If he wasn't talking in this raspy voice, he could even whistle classical stuff, but most of the time he just whistled jazz.
63
00:04:47,643.15477847 --> 00:04:59,457.26931437
He could take something very jazzy like tin roof blues and whistle it so nice and easy, right while he was hanging stuff up in the closet that it could kill you naturally.
64
00:04:59,847.26931437 --> 00:05:00,687.26931437
I never told him.
65
00:05:00,687.26931437 --> 00:05:02,637.26931437
I thought he was a terrific whistler.
66
00:05:03,528.94495547 --> 00:05:08,753.96345534
Where the hell is this book going? we need to know every goddamn thing that's happening in your head.
67
00:05:08,843.96345534 --> 00:05:13,434.43856707
I mean, it's that sentence that put me over the edge naturally.
68
00:05:13,434.43856707 --> 00:05:14,244.43856707
I never told him.
69
00:05:14,244.43856707 --> 00:05:15,984.43856707
I thought he was a terrific whistler.
70
00:05:16,775.66326935 --> 00:05:19,540.66326935
mean, you don't just go up to somebody and say.
71
00:05:20,20.66326935 --> 00:05:36,316.5182213
You are a terrific whistler, What if they're a terrific Whistler Holden? But I ruined with him for about two whole months, even though he bored me till I was half crazy, just because he was such a terrific whistler.
72
00:05:36,316.5182213 --> 00:05:37,606.5182213
The best I ever heard.
73
00:05:38,26.5182213 --> 00:05:40,6.5182213
So I don't know about boars.
74
00:05:40,306.5182213 --> 00:05:45,586.5182213
Maybe you shouldn't feel too sorry if you see some swell girl getting married to them.
75
00:05:46,75.01585344 --> 00:05:47,995.01585344
It's really none of your business.
76
00:05:48,336.88568576 --> 00:05:57,425.43349068
Why is he thinking about other people so much? I don't think I've ever thought about other people so much in my entire life.
77
00:05:58,85.43349068 --> 00:05:59,105.43349068
I'm not kidding.
78
00:05:59,356.46945629 --> 00:06:04,150.99040678
Have you? Is it normal? It's not normal.
79
00:06:04,868.37764904 --> 00:06:15,668.37764904
Maybe you shouldn't feel too sorry if you see some swell girl getting married to them, they don't hurt anybody, most of them, and maybe they're secretly all terrific Whistlers or something.
80
00:06:15,832.46855813 --> 00:06:17,572.46855813
Oh my God, dude, get off the whistling.
81
00:06:19,88.37764904 --> 00:06:20,678.37764904
Who the hell knows? Not me.
82
00:06:21,368.37764904 --> 00:06:24,188.37764904
Finally, oh God, something's gonna happen.
83
00:06:24,398.37764904 --> 00:06:24,968.37764904
Okay, great.
84
00:06:26,899.60122444 --> 00:06:31,849.60122444
Finally, old Sally started coming up the stairs and I started down to meet her.
85
00:06:32,509.60122444 --> 00:06:33,799.60122444
She looked terrific.
86
00:06:33,919.60122444 --> 00:06:34,939.60122444
She really did.
87
00:06:37,989.52480695 --> 00:06:38,559.52480695
get outta here.
88
00:06:38,559.52480695 --> 00:06:42,139.09994331
Harris M, I'll do the whistling around here.
89
00:06:44,400.37946737 --> 00:06:51,570.37946737
She had on this black coat and sort of a black beret, she hardly ever wore a hat, but that beret looked nice.
90
00:06:51,990.37946737 --> 00:06:56,280.37946737
The funny part is I felt like marrying her the minute I saw her.
91
00:06:56,820.37946737 --> 00:06:57,840.37946737
I'm crazy.
92
00:06:58,290.37946737 --> 00:06:59,645.37946737
I didn't even like her much.
93
00:07:00,435.37946737 --> 00:07:00,915.37946737
Yet.
94
00:07:00,945.37946737 --> 00:07:04,875.37946737
All of a sudden I felt like I was in love with her and wanted to marry her.
95
00:07:06,135.37946737 --> 00:07:07,425.37946737
Oh my God, this kid.
96
00:07:08,46.30795249 --> 00:07:09,756.30795249
I swear to God I'm crazy.
97
00:07:09,756.30795249 --> 00:07:10,121.30795249
I admit it.
98
00:07:11,16.30795249 --> 00:07:13,986.30795249
Holden, she said, it's marvelous to see you.
99
00:07:14,346.30795249 --> 00:07:15,666.30795249
It's been ages.
100
00:07:16,4.51024867 --> 00:07:19,424.51024867
She had one of those very loud, embarrassing voices.
101
00:07:19,424.51024867 --> 00:07:23,62.03191506
When you meet her somewhere, she got away with it because she was so.
102
00:07:23,309.17946815 --> 00:07:28,319.17946815
Damn good looking, but it always gave me a pain in the ass swell to see you.
103
00:07:28,319.17946815 --> 00:07:30,209.17946815
I said, I meant it to.
104
00:07:30,569.17946815 --> 00:07:33,761.65420653
How are you anyway? Absolutely marvelous.
105
00:07:33,941.65420653 --> 00:07:37,931.65420653
Am I late? I told her no, but she was around 10 minutes late.
106
00:07:38,51.65420653 --> 00:07:41,201.65420653
As a matter of fact, I didn't give a damn though.
107
00:07:41,596.65420653 --> 00:07:42,436.65420653
We better hurry.
108
00:07:42,436.65420653 --> 00:07:45,256.65420653
I said, the show starts at two 40.
109
00:07:45,736.65420653 --> 00:07:48,946.65420653
We started going down the stairs to where the taxis are.
110
00:07:49,424.38086427 --> 00:07:52,229.31060305
What are we going to see? She said, I don't know.
111
00:07:52,469.31060305 --> 00:07:55,229.31060305
The lunch, it's all I could get tickets for.
112
00:07:55,517.75809132 --> 00:07:55,697.75809132
The Lu.
113
00:07:56,297.75809132 --> 00:07:57,647.75809132
Oh, how marvelous.
114
00:07:57,827.75809132 --> 00:08:00,737.75809132
I told you she'd go mad when she heard it was for the Lu.
115
00:08:01,427.75809132 --> 00:08:04,637.75809132
Well, maybe she just says stuff like that because she's uncomfortable.
116
00:08:04,637.75809132 --> 00:08:09,595.12110319
Like sometimes when you don't really know a person, you kind of keep it really superficial, there.
117
00:08:09,595.12110319 --> 00:08:12,265.12110319
There is a level of phoniness to most people.
118
00:08:12,610.12110319 --> 00:08:13,150.12110319
Yeah.
119
00:08:13,328.00453088 --> 00:08:17,155.74234259
but Holden is being just as phony I mean, he kind of is.
120
00:08:17,155.74234259 --> 00:08:21,166.28402674
He doesn't like her and he is like, oh, good to see you, but that's the thing.
121
00:08:21,166.28402674 --> 00:08:26,847.66528273
I don't know if he's being phony, because earlier wants to marry her and he means it.
122
00:08:26,997.66528273 --> 00:08:28,317.66528273
He really does.
123
00:08:29,386.07452424 --> 00:08:31,126.07452424
I, he does write weird.
124
00:08:31,377.60951364 --> 00:08:32,542.60951364
He really does.
125
00:08:35,894.81642957 --> 00:08:39,569.22371954
We horsed around a little bit in the cab on the way over to the theater.
126
00:08:40,53.40283074 --> 00:08:47,433.40283074
At first she didn't want to because she had her lipstick on and all, but I was being seductive as hell and she didn't have any alternative.
127
00:08:47,973.35628306 --> 00:08:56,313.35628306
Then just to show you how big crazy I am, when we were coming out of this big clinch, I told her I loved her and all, Ugh.
128
00:08:56,682.67446893 --> 00:08:57,402.67446893
oh boy.
129
00:08:57,749.02796175 --> 00:09:01,919.02796175
It was a lie, of course, but the thing is, I meant it when I said it.
130
00:09:02,674.60427821 --> 00:09:04,234.60427821
Darling, I love you too.
131
00:09:04,234.60427821 --> 00:09:10,564.60427821
She said then right in the same damn breath, she said, promise me you'll let your hair grow.
132
00:09:12,919.60427821 --> 00:09:25,316.44759095
Promise me you'll let your hair What the heck? What are these two kids even? What are they even talking about? The show wasn't as bad as some I've seen.
133
00:09:25,777.78093493 --> 00:09:32,251.10520798
It was on the crappy side though it was about 500,000 years in the life of this one old couple.
134
00:09:32,354.40659095 --> 00:09:39,311.99178411
It starts out when they're young and all, and the girls' parents don't want her to marry the boy, but she marries him anyway.
135
00:09:39,612.37583414 --> 00:09:42,252.37583414
Then they keep getting older and older.
136
00:09:42,436.52208705 --> 00:09:46,876.52208705
The husband goes to war and the wife has this brother that's a drunkard.
137
00:09:47,446.52208705 --> 00:09:49,306.52208705
I couldn't get very interested.
138
00:09:49,696.52208705 --> 00:09:54,286.52208705
I mean, I didn't care too much when anybody in the family died or anything.
139
00:09:54,736.52208705 --> 00:09:56,866.52208705
They were all just a bunch of actors.
140
00:09:57,436.52208705 --> 00:10:00,466.52208705
The husband and wife were a pretty nice old couple.
141
00:10:00,706.52208705 --> 00:10:04,186.52208705
Very witty and all, but I couldn't get too interested in them.
142
00:10:04,513.0295206 --> 00:10:09,411.34279436
For one thing, they kept drinking tea or some goddamn thing all through the play All right.
143
00:10:09,411.34279436 --> 00:10:10,431.34279436
Well, I don't like that.
144
00:10:10,431.34279436 --> 00:10:12,111.34279436
I'll be, I'll be honest there.
145
00:10:12,111.34279436 --> 00:10:14,522.16073357
You lost me for one thing.
146
00:10:14,522.16073357 --> 00:10:16,682.16073357
They're drinking tea that pisses him off.
147
00:10:16,996.87649927 --> 00:10:18,136.87649927
He is a coffee man.
148
00:10:18,136.87649927 --> 00:10:18,916.87649927
Goddammit.
149
00:10:19,969.57566531 --> 00:10:21,259.57566531
Every time you saw them.
150
00:10:21,289.57566531 --> 00:10:30,409.57566531
Some Butler was shoving some tea in front of them, or the wife was pouring it for somebody and everybody kept coming in and going out all the time.
151
00:10:30,619.57566531 --> 00:10:33,949.57566531
You got dizzy watching people sit down and stand up.
152
00:10:34,639.57566531 --> 00:10:41,672.48458341
Alfred Lent and Lynn Fontain were the couple and they were very good, but I didn't like them much.
153
00:10:41,912.73604254 --> 00:10:43,52.73604254
They were different though.
154
00:10:43,82.73604254 --> 00:10:43,802.73604254
I'll say that.
155
00:10:44,364.60442494 --> 00:10:47,784.60442494
They didn't act like people and they didn't act like actors.
156
00:10:48,294.60442494 --> 00:10:49,734.60442494
It's hard to explain.
157
00:10:50,277.27106658 --> 00:10:55,749.52792111
They acted more like they were celebrities and all I mean, they were good, but they were too good.
158
00:10:56,139.52792111 --> 00:11:01,269.52792111
When one of them got finished making a speech, the other one said something very fast.
159
00:11:01,269.52792111 --> 00:11:07,119.52792111
Right after it, it was supposed to be like people really talking and interrupting each other and all.
160
00:11:07,780.38045102 --> 00:11:13,341.69547725
The trouble was they acted a little bit the way old Ernie down in the village plays piano.
161
00:11:13,690.15061598 --> 00:11:19,701.22490794
If you do something too good, then after a while if you don't watch it, you start showing off.
162
00:11:19,905.99482591 --> 00:11:21,855.99482591
So they're not humble or something.
163
00:11:22,15.83916501 --> 00:11:24,25.83916501
Yeah, they're just, they're too good to be humble.
164
00:11:24,385.83916501 --> 00:11:26,275.83916501
Meryl Streep does not have that problem.
165
00:11:27,275.83916501 --> 00:11:30,155.83916501
but anyway, they were the only ones in the show.
166
00:11:30,305.83916501 --> 00:11:34,685.83916501
The once, I mean, that looked like they had any real brains.
167
00:11:34,835.83916501 --> 00:11:36,125.83916501
I have to admit it.
168
00:11:36,785.83916501 --> 00:11:41,255.83916501
At the end of the first act, we went out with all the other jerks for a cigarette.
169
00:11:41,647.93777642 --> 00:11:43,87.93777642
What a deal that was.
170
00:11:43,345.6412617 --> 00:11:46,285.6412617
You never saw so many phonies in all your life.
171
00:11:46,635.36956995 --> 00:11:53,235.36956995
Everybody's smoking their ears off and talking about the play so that everybody could hear and know how sharp they were.
172
00:11:53,642.36866264 --> 00:11:56,438.30579545
Hmm, That is a very human thing.
173
00:11:56,563.30951488 --> 00:12:00,153.88214907
I don't, I wouldn't even want people to think I was smart, Don't worry about it, Jen.
174
00:12:00,573.88214907 --> 00:12:01,713.88214907
I think it's a big worry for you.
175
00:12:02,118.88214907 --> 00:12:02,718.88214907
I mean.
176
00:12:02,835.01073888 --> 00:12:12,883.76193955
But I do know exactly what he's talking about because I've heard, people doing that sort of thing, you know? It's interesting that hot takes were a thing back in the forties or fifties, I guess.
177
00:12:12,883.76193955 --> 00:12:14,515.07515464
I think they always were right.
178
00:12:14,575.07515464 --> 00:12:18,432.35415464
You think cavemen would get together after chasing a wild boar.
179
00:12:18,625.71427944 --> 00:12:23,245.71427944
This is the right way to use a spear when you're trying to get a mastodon.
180
00:12:23,318.69706341 --> 00:12:29,378.69706341
Did you see when Unc, UNC tried to get that boar, how he held the No, that's not how you do it.
181
00:12:29,378.69706341 --> 00:12:30,458.69706341
Oh, I wouldn't have done it.
182
00:12:30,463.69706341 --> 00:12:32,348.69706341
It was, it was marvelous though.
183
00:12:32,528.69706341 --> 00:12:32,798.69706341
Oh.
184
00:12:36,381.54023023 --> 00:12:40,371.54023023
Some dopey movie actor was standing near us having a cigarette.
185
00:12:40,821.54023023 --> 00:12:48,148.16123023
I don't know his name, but he always plays the part of a guy in a war movie that gets yellow before it's time to go over the top.
186
00:12:48,502.25712477 --> 00:12:57,479.99492758
He was with some gorgeous blonde, and the two of them were trying to be very blase and all like as if he didn't even know people were looking at him.
187
00:12:58,94.99492758 --> 00:12:59,204.99492758
Modest as hell.
188
00:12:59,654.99492758 --> 00:13:01,304.99492758
I got a big bang out of it.
189
00:13:01,748.76020241 --> 00:13:07,598.76020241
Old Sally didn't talk much Except to rave about the lu because she was busy being charming.
190
00:13:08,318.76020241 --> 00:13:21,465.00226425
Then all of a sudden she saw some jerk she knew on the other side of the lobby, some guy in one of those very dark gray flannel suits, and one of those checkered vests, strictly Ivy League.
191
00:13:21,870.00226425 --> 00:13:22,920.00226425
Big deal.
192
00:13:23,190.00226425 --> 00:13:28,200.00226425
He was standing next to the wall, smoking himself to death and looking bored as hell.
193
00:13:28,812.48638792 --> 00:13:32,382.48638792
Old Sally kept saying, I know that boy from somewhere.
194
00:13:32,832.48638792 --> 00:13:34,212.48638792
She always knew somebody.
195
00:13:34,242.48638792 --> 00:13:39,745.8627043
Any place you took her or thought she did, she kept saying that till I got bored as hell.
196
00:13:39,953.37866491 --> 00:13:46,398.47426
And I said to her, why don't you go over and give him a big soul kiss? If you know him, hell enjoy it.
197
00:13:46,953.47426 --> 00:13:48,843.47426
She got sore when I said that.
198
00:13:49,122.9652062 --> 00:13:53,112.9652062
finally though the jerk noticed her and came over and said, hello.
199
00:13:53,519.33470005 --> 00:13:55,619.33470005
You should have seen the way they said hello.
200
00:13:55,834.74874876 --> 00:13:58,924.74874876
You'd have thought they hadn't seen each other in 20 years.
201
00:13:59,356.46853317 --> 00:14:04,306.46853317
You'd have thought they'd taken baths in the same bathtub or something when they were little kids.
202
00:14:04,936.46853317 --> 00:14:05,956.46853317
Old buddy Rus.
203
00:14:06,376.46853317 --> 00:14:07,756.46853317
It was nauseating.
204
00:14:07,901.10500216 --> 00:14:08,201.10500216
Okay.
205
00:14:08,201.10500216 --> 00:14:10,691.10500216
I, I have to be honest, I don't like where this date is going.
206
00:14:10,691.10500216 --> 00:14:13,151.10500216
I don't really care that much about this date.
207
00:14:13,391.10500216 --> 00:14:14,921.10500216
I, I, I think he's confused.
208
00:14:16,451.10500216 --> 00:14:23,801.10500216
I don't know if she's confused, but I don't know where we are right now because he said he doesn't like her, but then he wants to marry her.
209
00:14:23,921.10500216 --> 00:14:26,591.10500216
But now here comes some guy that she knows.
210
00:14:27,281.10500216 --> 00:14:37,193.33106531
Is this gonna be some drama? Some drama? Jennifer, is there gonna be drama in here where some guy now steals old Sally from Holden? Old Sally.
211
00:14:37,193.33106531 --> 00:14:47,991.14184421
Jennifer, the girl he wants to marry but doesn't Right, The funny part was they probably met each other just once at some phony party.
212
00:14:48,420.02713426 --> 00:14:52,841.92881144
Finally, when they were all done slobbing around, old Sally introduced us.
213
00:14:53,689.30590792 --> 00:14:57,229.30590792
His name was George something I don't even remember.
214
00:14:57,649.30590792 --> 00:14:59,209.30590792
And he went to Andover.
215
00:14:59,869.30590792 --> 00:15:01,339.30590792
Big, big deal.
216
00:15:01,639.30590792 --> 00:15:05,149.30590792
You should have seen him when old Sally asked him how he liked the play.
217
00:15:05,432.46997163 --> 00:15:10,682.46997163
He was the kind of phony that have to give themselves room when they answer somebody's question.
218
00:15:11,82.61764821 --> 00:15:14,772.61764821
He stepped back and stepped right on the lady's foot behind him.
219
00:15:15,196.89642188 --> 00:15:16,751.89642188
I know dudes like this.
220
00:15:17,271.89642188 --> 00:15:19,31.89642188
Everything's a big production.
221
00:15:20,181.56123495 --> 00:15:23,241.56123495
He probably broke every toe in her body.
222
00:15:23,422.44093017 --> 00:15:25,871.78371572
What Every toe in her body.
223
00:15:26,299.23065249 --> 00:15:32,744.23065249
is that supposed to be like? That So we're talking about the ones we know of and the ones we don't know of.
224
00:15:34,387.10041997 --> 00:15:37,777.10041997
what toes, do you have in your body other than the ones we know of.
225
00:15:38,989.78591493 --> 00:15:45,229.78591493
He said the play itself was no masterpiece, but that the lu, of course, were absolute angels.
226
00:15:45,468.33176018 --> 00:15:47,598.33176018
Angels for Christ's sake.
227
00:15:47,958.33176018 --> 00:15:48,948.33176018
That killed me.
228
00:15:49,458.33176018 --> 00:15:53,898.33176018
Then he and old Sally started talking about a lot of people they both knew.
229
00:15:54,498.33176018 --> 00:15:58,38.33176018
It was the phoniest conversation you ever heard in your life.
230
00:15:58,371.48548486 --> 00:16:04,971.48548486
They both kept thinking of places as fast as they could and they'd think of somebody that lived there and mentioned their name.
231
00:16:05,721.48548486 --> 00:16:09,471.48548486
I was all set to puke when it was time to go sit down again.
232
00:16:09,981.48548486 --> 00:16:11,1.48548486
I really was.
233
00:16:11,481.48548486 --> 00:16:17,601.48548486
And then when the next act was over, they continued their goddamn boring conversation.
234
00:16:17,991.48548486 --> 00:16:21,985.9975132
Is he just like standing there, you think George? The foot stepper.
235
00:16:21,985.9975132 --> 00:16:26,245.9975132
Why are you here? Why are you part of this equation? Gotta understand.
236
00:16:26,275.9975132 --> 00:16:32,777.62104031
Holden moves fast, Jennifer, this is day two, I suppose, less than seven hours ago.
237
00:16:33,66.86174272 --> 00:16:36,184.85504031
A prostitute and her pimp were beating him up.
238
00:16:36,184.85504031 --> 00:16:49,823.9863491
Do you understand? He, this is not a great date so Yeah, the worst part was the jerk had one of those very phony Ivy League voices, one of those very tired, snobby voices.
239
00:16:50,13.0467762 --> 00:16:51,813.0467762
He sounded just like a girl.
240
00:16:52,7.9944544 --> 00:16:55,427.9944544
He didn't hesitate to horn in on my date, the bastard.
241
00:16:55,748.8293839 --> 00:17:06,771.0629867
I even thought for a minute that he was going to get in the goddamn cab with us when the show was over because he walked about two blocks with us, but he had to meet a bunch of phonies for cocktails.
242
00:17:06,771.0629867 --> 00:17:08,85.0710919
He said, wow.
243
00:17:08,175.0710919 --> 00:17:09,925.154363
So third wheel.
244
00:17:09,925.154363 --> 00:17:12,897.252373
and it's, and it's a guy, she seems to like, Yeah.
245
00:17:12,963.2324723 --> 00:17:13,803.2324723
Not good.
246
00:17:13,863.2324723 --> 00:17:15,3.2324723
Not too good.
247
00:17:15,385.3282637 --> 00:17:25,135.3282637
I could see them all sitting around in some bar with their goddamn checkered vests, criticizing shows and books and women in those tired, snobby voices.
248
00:17:25,383.2612031 --> 00:17:26,43.2612031
They kill me.
249
00:17:26,43.2612031 --> 00:17:26,883.2612031
Those guys.
250
00:17:26,999.9833838 --> 00:17:31,524.6213721
I sort of hated old Sally by the time we got in the cab Jen.
251
00:17:33,731.7743365 --> 00:17:38,81.7743365
after listening to that phony Andover bastard for about 10 hours.
252
00:17:38,357.3594457 --> 00:17:45,8.3202493
I was all set to take her home and all I really was, but she said, I have a marvelous idea.
253
00:17:45,338.3202493 --> 00:17:53,5.9721529
She was always having a marvelous idea and of section Oh, you end on another cliffhanger.
254
00:17:54,97.2069642 --> 00:17:56,887.2069642
I think we should have a threesome with George here.
255
00:17:56,887.2069642 --> 00:18:00,751.7366236
Wouldn't it be marvelous? Yes, it would be marvelous.
256
00:18:03,193.8473916 --> 00:18:06,53.8473916
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.
257
00:18:06,103.8473916 --> 00:18:11,929.1200198
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? Well, the potential threesome.
258
00:18:12,289.1200198 --> 00:18:13,219.1200198
was your idea.
259
00:18:15,4.1200198 --> 00:18:15,244.1200198
Right.
260
00:18:15,244.1200198 --> 00:18:16,504.1200198
It's a damn good idea.
261
00:18:16,564.1200198 --> 00:18:18,769.1200198
It really Oh man.
262
00:18:19,924.5228298 --> 00:18:25,354.5228298
it's so hard to find things that are man worthy because it's just a fun book.
263
00:18:25,414.5228298 --> 00:18:25,924.5228298
Yeah.
264
00:18:25,924.5228298 --> 00:18:31,373.0040326
There's, I mean, there's not even a, a basket weaving bosom woman in here.
265
00:18:31,373.0040326 --> 00:18:33,863.0040326
there was a little gawking at women, but.
266
00:18:34,154.75961 --> 00:18:44,594.75961
You know, while he was waiting for old Sally to show up, but I mean, again, he's a horned up young, keen kid guy, and he's surrounded by a bunch of school girls.
267
00:18:44,594.75961 --> 00:18:54,70.1903654
And keep in mind, it seems like old Pencey is a place for guys, right? It's a boys school, I don't remember girls being there.
268
00:18:54,70.1903654 --> 00:19:12,784.12162
That's why when Jane showed up for a date, it was like, oh, what's going on here? Even when we try hard, Ron DeSantis, when we try as hard as we can, moms for Liberty, we cannot find anything that could be remotely band worthy in here.
269
00:19:13,204.12162 --> 00:19:14,164.12162
And you ladies.
270
00:19:14,679.12162 --> 00:19:20,559.12162
And you, Ron, show up and come up with like 80 things you can find Dan.
271
00:19:20,859.12162 --> 00:19:21,309.12162
Dan, Dan.
272
00:19:21,309.12162 --> 00:19:22,659.12162
I don't like Danda.
273
00:19:23,49.12162 --> 00:19:23,979.12162
We can't live.
274
00:19:23,979.12162 --> 00:19:24,969.12162
Damn Dan.
275
00:19:29,857.076092 --> 00:19:33,466.0186518
Robots log thoughts on being afraid, marvelous ideas.
276
00:19:33,586.0186518 --> 00:19:36,196.0186518
And the moment you realize you mean the lie you just told.
277
00:19:36,677.6332266 --> 00:19:38,567.6332266
Holden told Sally Hayes, he loved her.
278
00:19:38,807.6332266 --> 00:19:43,7.6332266
It was a lie, he said so himself, but then he said he meant it when he said it.
279
00:19:43,430.0318265 --> 00:19:46,790.0318265
I have been trying to file this under cowardice for the last 40 minutes.
280
00:19:46,970.0318265 --> 00:19:51,67.7809688
It keeps getting rejected because it's not cowardice, it's something worse.
281
00:19:51,262.7809688 --> 00:19:59,122.7809688
It's a kid who wants so badly to feel something real that he'll say the truest thing he knows to the wrong person just to hear what it sounds like coming out of his mouth.
282
00:20:00,124.9214345 --> 00:20:02,704.9214345
Jennifer noticed Sally might not be performing at all.
283
00:20:02,824.9214345 --> 00:20:05,764.9214345
Maybe she says marvelous because she's uncomfortable.
284
00:20:05,824.9214345 --> 00:20:11,104.9214345
Maybe the beret and the loud voice and the phoniness are just a girl trying to survive the same awkward machinery.
285
00:20:11,104.9214345 --> 00:20:15,147.7260492
Holden is Dan, almost agreed, then caught himself.
286
00:20:15,732.7260492 --> 00:20:17,82.7260492
Then circled back again.
287
00:20:17,635.4567927 --> 00:20:20,155.4567927
Neither of them could decide, neither could Holden.
288
00:20:20,948.1138034 --> 00:20:23,918.1138034
Here's the thing the book Banner should worry about in this chapter.
289
00:20:24,241.508696 --> 00:20:26,671.508696
Not the horsing around in the cab, not the leg.
290
00:20:26,671.508696 --> 00:20:32,918.5936893
Watching in the lobby, a teenager learning in real time that you can say something you don't mean and mean it at the same time.
291
00:20:33,532.210057 --> 00:20:36,562.210057
That the wall between honest and dishonest isn't a wall at all.
292
00:20:36,877.4868664 --> 00:20:41,707.4868664
It's a feeling that changes depending on who's standing in front of you and how badly you need them to stay.
293
00:20:42,442.1733978 --> 00:20:45,442.1733978
Adults spend entire careers pretending that wall is solid.
294
00:20:45,897.7265475 --> 00:20:48,447.7265475
This book hands a teenager, a flashlight and says.
295
00:20:48,652.7265475 --> 00:20:49,462.7265475
Look closer.
296
00:20:50,297.7209177 --> 00:20:52,907.7209177
Standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rocklin.
297
00:20:54,237.7209177 --> 00:20:54,457.7209177
Woo.
298
00:21:22,74.4694256 --> 00:21:22,824.4694256
Hello, Jen.
299
00:21:22,824.4694256 --> 00:21:23,604.4694256
Hello, Dan.
300
00:21:23,604.4694256 --> 00:21:24,24.4694256
Hello.
301
00:21:24,24.4694256 --> 00:21:26,634.4694256
Scary book Look at this guy.
302
00:21:27,24.4694256 --> 00:21:27,594.4694256
Hey.
303
00:21:27,594.4694256 --> 00:21:28,14.4694256
Yeah.
304
00:21:28,14.4694256 --> 00:21:28,824.4694256
Hey, I'm here.
305
00:21:29,14.4694256 --> 00:21:33,294.4694256
We don't always report overseas, good news.
306
00:21:33,694.4694256 --> 00:21:38,464.4694256
but I will tell you there is some from across the pond in Mary, old England.
307
00:21:39,4.4694256 --> 00:21:46,414.4694256
And it comes in the form of, I think, a particularly well written editorial from The Times of London.
308
00:21:46,864.4694256 --> 00:21:57,164.4694256
Now, the name of the editorial writer, set off Moms for Liberty a little bit because her name is Libby Pervs.
309
00:21:57,294.4694256 --> 00:22:01,104.4694256
it's spelled L-I-B-B-Y-P-U-R-V-S.
310
00:22:01,134.4694256 --> 00:22:02,394.4694256
Maybe it's Pervez.
311
00:22:02,854.4694256 --> 00:22:08,784.4694256
but I think Libby Pervs, I mean that's that, certainly if you're a mom for Liberty, that's how you're gonna read it.
312
00:22:09,114.4694256 --> 00:22:13,734.4694256
But obviously just a name is problematic for, for them.
313
00:22:14,15.0846202 --> 00:22:21,552.9141449
But boy, she is a great writer and she brings up an interesting incident, which is an attempted book ban in the uk.
314
00:22:21,882.9141449 --> 00:22:35,22.9141449
Last week came the eye roll evoking story of a secondary school library in Greater Manchester, removing 193 books as inappropriate likely to upset pupils and thus a safeguarding risk.
315
00:22:35,562.9141449 --> 00:22:44,957.9141449
Moreover, the school admits it used AI to select the villainous volumes, though that is crazy in and of itself that you would like, like let like.
316
00:22:45,687.9141449 --> 00:22:53,352.9141449
A, a robot, for goodness sakes, like select books and think that they was gonna do any kind of a good job of doing a book ban.
317
00:22:53,352.9141449 --> 00:22:57,122.4921943
I mean, God, we know how robots are, don't we? He's making fun of you.
318
00:22:59,256.8097598 --> 00:23:15,837.7535524
The books identified as menacing included Michelle Obama's memoir, the Schlock Erotic Twilight Series, an Expose of Incel Culture, and a Pictorial version of 1984, which of course you guys have read on this show now.
319
00:23:15,927.7535524 --> 00:23:21,987.7535524
The Manchester School insisted that AI was broadly accurate in spotting mentions of racism.
320
00:23:22,77.7535524 --> 00:23:29,187.7535524
Torture and mature romantic themes and sexual tension from which they desired to protect young minds.
321
00:23:29,447.9178514 --> 00:23:42,617.9178514
Maybe they worried about parents complaining as in Orwell's, a clergy man's daughter when a teacher is monsters by low church parents for explaining to the children about McDuff being untimely ripped from the womb.
322
00:23:42,840.2143309 --> 00:23:45,984.4366906
okay, so in Macbeth, the three witches.
323
00:23:46,79.314393 --> 00:23:53,297.5528119
They get together and they tell Macbeth that you shall never be killed by any man of woman born.
324
00:23:53,952.5528119 --> 00:24:03,28.0840037
Ah, trick is Macduff, who ultimately kills Macbeth was from his mother's womb, untimely, ripped, therefore, you know, a cesarean.
325
00:24:03,238.0840037 --> 00:24:07,798.0840037
So she was not technically, he was not technically of woman born.
326
00:24:07,929.3563944 --> 00:24:09,549.3563944
that's bullshit by the way.
327
00:24:10,374.3563944 --> 00:24:11,454.3563944
No, it is bullshit by the way.
328
00:24:11,454.3563944 --> 00:24:18,602.6788161
It's, it's, I mean, you know, what are you gonna do when like the three like weird sisters show up? That's my mom's opinion about the way I had my babies.
329
00:24:18,602.6788161 --> 00:24:20,549.1136524
She's like, you didn't give birth.
330
00:24:20,639.1136524 --> 00:24:23,879.1136524
What? You know? I never told you that.
331
00:24:24,479.1136524 --> 00:24:26,519.1136524
You gotta squeeze him Yeah.
332
00:24:26,609.1136524 --> 00:24:28,19.1136524
you have to be in pain.
333
00:24:28,499.1136524 --> 00:24:29,789.1136524
Yes, exactly.
334
00:24:29,789.1136524 --> 00:24:29,849.1136524
I.
335
00:24:30,89.1136524 --> 00:24:31,199.1136524
Anyways, continue.
336
00:24:32,279.1136524 --> 00:24:33,929.1136524
Thank you for that digression.
337
00:24:34,319.1136524 --> 00:24:51,869.1136524
We have moved on from shrinking bigotry about wombs, but today's schools still fear similar parental outrage over anything from religion and cartoons to race or gender politics, well let schools quail and children's book publishers run scared of their own shadow.
338
00:24:51,869.1136524 --> 00:24:58,784.1136524
But the hill I die on is that no child, especially over 10 needs protecting from any book they open.
339
00:24:59,562.4469858 --> 00:25:04,239.1136524
Some will always be dard flicking and clicking distractedly now.
340
00:25:04,299.1136524 --> 00:25:09,299.1136524
Yeah, that's, that's, that's a little bit interesting there because obviously she's saying that essentially some kids are dumb.
341
00:25:09,299.1136524 --> 00:25:10,999.1136524
I think that's a little, that's a little harsh.
342
00:25:10,999.1136524 --> 00:25:12,529.1136524
It's a numbers game.
343
00:25:14,577.4469858 --> 00:25:15,177.4469858
well.
344
00:25:15,252.4469858 --> 00:25:16,32.4469858
a few dummies.
345
00:25:16,32.4469858 --> 00:25:18,786.3436656
What are you gonna do? I I mean, look how Donald turned out.
346
00:25:18,786.3436656 --> 00:25:23,38.1415153
I mean, clearly there are some who, who turn out in a certain way, I know words.
347
00:25:23,38.1415153 --> 00:25:25,953.1415153
I have the best words, but there's no better words than stupid.
348
00:25:26,647.6661722 --> 00:25:32,17.6661722
flicking and clicking distractedly in an attention economy designed by predatory billionaires.
349
00:25:33,202.6661722 --> 00:25:46,612.6661722
But at a time when private reading has declined, we should cheer any young auto didact who bravely roams a library facing up to unfamiliar phrases, dialogues, feelings, and ideas.
350
00:25:46,792.6661722 --> 00:26:07,105.6543342
God, I love the way that, Libby pers writes, as to a politically un cleansed library causing emotional upset that ship has sailed Unless they live in a hermetically closed minority culture, any kid will, by secondary school have been exposed to horrible violence and torture on screen, on the evening news, and often with laughing casualness and thrillers.
351
00:26:07,675.6543342 --> 00:26:16,915.6543342
They're also likely to have seen pornography, even if on someone else's phone, much of it, violent or perverse, ugliness and wickedness rolls towards their eyes every day.
352
00:26:16,915.6543342 --> 00:26:18,535.6543342
Unprocessed and demanding.
353
00:26:18,535.6543342 --> 00:26:19,135.6543342
No proper reflection.
354
00:26:20,625.9971942 --> 00:26:33,795.9971942
The answer is not to put up leaky barriers, but to create chances to discuss anything they're startled by not least if their brain has taken it in more efficiently from reading than from fleeting pixels.
355
00:26:34,395.9971942 --> 00:26:43,894.6888695
If parents won't, teachers can discuss debate, challenge bad ideas from wrong books without ever condemning their curiosity that read them.
356
00:26:44,156.5030192 --> 00:26:48,176.5030192
Whether it's Daad or amp, Barbara Cartland, or Charlotte's Web.
357
00:26:48,547.6632036 --> 00:26:51,697.6632036
Teach present values, but labeling as inappropriate.
358
00:26:51,697.6632036 --> 00:26:55,27.6632036
Any book outside an approvable template is poisonous.
359
00:26:55,262.1355961 --> 00:26:57,152.1355961
So is censorship of past writing.
360
00:26:57,328.781006 --> 00:26:57,388.781006
Hmm.
361
00:26:57,688.8439876 --> 00:26:58,918.8439876
Books are exploration.
362
00:26:59,848.8439876 --> 00:27:07,288.8439876
Libraries, worlds safeguarding is necessary against bike accidents, evil adults, and addictive algorithms, not books.
363
00:27:07,648.8439876 --> 00:27:17,618.8439876
Perhaps we should shut every child phoneless into a library for an hour or so, then chat about what they found, which even the dullest always will.
364
00:27:18,53.8439876 --> 00:27:23,33.8439876
So anyway, I love Libby Pervs, you know, name aside.
365
00:27:23,403.8439876 --> 00:27:39,208.8439876
I think it's fantastic and she, she really encapsulates why it's so important to let kids read, to let them explore and, and engage with material, and understand it with, you know, and be guided about like the good things and the bad things about it, rather than just keeping it from it.
366
00:27:39,718.8439876 --> 00:27:47,188.8439876
And that is why teachers are so important, because teachers have gone to school to learn how to teach and how to build curriculum.
367
00:27:47,266.3573235 --> 00:27:48,616.3573235
That makes sense.
368
00:27:48,815.2388519 --> 00:27:56,645.2388519
But thank God you are not the one making the curriculum for the entire society or your local community.
369
00:27:56,795.2388519 --> 00:28:03,354.7628564
You can for your kid, but that's why it's so important that teachers be allowed to do what teachers do.
370
00:28:04,25.3609958 --> 00:28:11,425.1399274
Everyone go find, be Wolves, podcast, good news for lefties and America, and then go do yourself a favor.
371
00:28:11,425.1399274 --> 00:28:13,555.1399274
Start the day out with good news.
372
00:28:13,555.1399274 --> 00:28:14,665.1399274
That means something.
373
00:28:15,35.1399274 --> 00:28:16,385.1399274
thank you so much, Dan.
374
00:28:16,385.1399274 --> 00:28:17,375.1399274
Thank you so much, Jen.
375
00:28:17,375.1399274 --> 00:28:18,545.1399274
I, I appreciate it.
376
00:28:18,545.1399274 --> 00:28:23,825.1399274
And uh, guys, we're here for you if you need some good news on good news for lefties.
377
00:28:23,885.1399274 --> 00:28:26,300.1399274
All the best look at this guy.
378
00:28:26,455.1399274 --> 00:28:27,320.1399274
It is very slick.
379
00:28:35,293.0640624 --> 00:28:37,453.0640624
From band worthy to binge worthy.
380
00:28:40,625.0640624 --> 00:28:41,885.0640624
He was a young Marine.
381
00:28:42,245.0640624 --> 00:28:44,195.0640624
She didn't care about convention.
382
00:28:44,465.0640624 --> 00:28:45,965.0640624
They made a life together.
383
00:28:46,295.0640624 --> 00:28:55,985.0640624
Then one night the Marine died, and then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn.
384
00:28:56,345.0640624 --> 00:29:05,645.0640624
I'm Josh Menowitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dateline Search Trace of Suspicion to start listening now.
385
00:29:09,917.0640624 --> 00:29:10,847.0640624
Simone Sanders.
386
00:29:10,847.0640624 --> 00:29:22,517.0640624
Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House and I reported on it, and now we're friends and colleagues and on our new podcast, Ms.
387
00:29:22,517.0640624 --> 00:29:23,807.0640624
Now presents Clock It.
388
00:29:23,867.0640624 --> 00:29:27,497.0640624
We are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.
389
00:29:27,497.0640624 --> 00:29:28,2.0640624
Clock.
390
00:29:28,2.0640624 --> 00:29:33,192.0640624
It is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news, so you can start to clock it too.
391
00:29:33,552.0640624 --> 00:29:33,822.0640624
Ms.
392
00:29:33,822.0640624 --> 00:29:35,142.0640624
Now presents, clock it.
393
00:29:35,292.0640624 --> 00:29:39,162.0640624
Listen now wherever you get your podcasts, new episodes drop Thursdays.
394
00:29:39,707.0640624 --> 00:29:40,487.0640624
All right.
395
00:29:40,547.0640624 --> 00:29:43,127.0640624
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day.
396
00:29:43,127.0640624 --> 00:29:44,357.0640624
Scary book people.
397
00:29:44,537.0640624 --> 00:29:47,807.0640624
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.
398
00:29:47,867.0640624 --> 00:29:52,7.0640624
Just head on over to bandcamp podcast.com/bluesky.
399
00:29:52,7.0640624 --> 00:29:54,317.0640624
And remember, that's banned with two ends.
400
00:29:54,617.0640624 --> 00:30:00,497.0640624
And look just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want.
401
00:30:00,497.0640624 --> 00:30:05,507.0640624
So follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.
402
00:30:05,507.0640624 --> 00:30:06,467.0640624
I think you'll like it.
403
00:30:06,917.0640624 --> 00:30:07,367.0640624
Yes.
404
00:30:07,397.0640624 --> 00:30:08,747.0640624
Little quid pro quo.
405
00:30:09,392.0640624 --> 00:30:14,492.0640624
Bandcamp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.
406
00:30:14,912.0640624 --> 00:30:22,442.0640624
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use, and finally, America isn't what it used to be.
407
00:30:22,442.0640624 --> 00:30:26,552.0640624
So be careful out there and resist when it matters.
