The Catcher in the Rye Ch. 16.2: The Museum That Never Changes | Banned Books Podcast

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Welcome to Band Camp.

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I'm Jennifer.

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I'm Dan, and this is the podcast where we read band books and try to figure out why they were banned in the first place.

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10 seasons in, haven't found a reason, not one single legitimate reason.

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Mm-hmm.

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None at all.

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This season we are reading JD Salinger's, the Catcher in the Rye.

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Now, you can consider this a quick spoiler warning because Jennifer is about to start reading from the book.

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Out loud word for word.

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Now that doesn't mean you're gonna get confused.

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I mean, I might, you might be confused, but we're gonna try to help you with being confused because we have a fact checking robot.

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So that means if this is your first episode, buddy, boy over here, our robot is gonna roll in here.

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He's gonna tell you where we left off.

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Everyone's gonna be on the same page, but we we're still gonna be confused because we've never read the book either.

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So this is our first time reading it.

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Let's bring them in here.

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Roll it in here.

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Buddy, boy, look at this robot.

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No expense spared We spent the entire $10 budget to get ourselves a robot.

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Here he is, buddy Boy, fill everyone in.

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Where did we leave off last time? In the catcher, in the rye.

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Previously on Band Camp Holden walked through New York thinking about nuns who eat toast and ants who wear lipstick.

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Bought a $5 record for his sister that made him happier than anything in 16 chapters and heard a 6-year-old on a curb singing the song.

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The entire book is named after.

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Jennifer had no idea what it meant.

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I suspect Dan thought the book was about rye bread.

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Then Holden finally called Jane.

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Her mom answered.

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He hung up.

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Apparently lying to prostitutes about having surgery on an ancient keyboard instrument is fine, but asking is Jane home requires a level of courage this kid does not possess.

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Some people walk a very long way to get somewhere they've been before and then stand outside the door and decide they can't go in.

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I've never understood why I'm starting to.

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Take it away, Jennifer.

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Woo.

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Thank you, robot.

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And with that being said, scary book people.

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Let's continue with chapter 16 of JD Salinger's, the Catcher in the Rye.

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And if you remember, scary book people and Dan and Robot, Holden was just getting into Central Park.

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Oh, that's right.

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I kept walking over to the mall because that's where Phoebe usually goes when she's in the park.

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She likes to skate near the bandstand.

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It's funny.

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That's the same place I used to skate when I was a kid.

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When I got there, though I didn't see her around anywhere.

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There were a few kids around skating and all, and two boys were playing fly ups with a softball, but no, Phoebe.

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I saw one kid about her age though sitting on a bench all by herself, tightening her skate.

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I thought maybe she might know Phoebe and could tell me where she was or something.

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So I went over and sat down next to her and asked her, do you know Phoebe Caulfield, by any chance, who? She said all she had on was jeans and about 20 sweaters.

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You could tell her mother made them for her because they were lumpy as hell.

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Phoebe Caulfield.

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She lives on 71st street.

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She's in the fourth grade over at, you know Phoebe? Yeah, I'm her brother.

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You know where she is.

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Well, that's fun.

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Kids would do that.

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They would see someone and they would think, that person probably knows my person.

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You know what I mean? That's a very kid move, and I like it.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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That is, You know Phoebe? Yeah, I'm her brother.

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You know where she is? She's in Miss Kellen's class.

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Is it she, the kid said, I don't know.

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Yes, I think she is.

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She's probably in the museum.

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Then we went last Saturday.

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The kid said which museum? I asked her.

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She shrugged her shoulders.

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I don't know.

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She said the museum.

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It's another kid That's another kid thing.

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it's the museum dude.

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I know, but the one where the pictures are, or the one where the Indians are the one where the Indians, thanks a lot.

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I said I got up and started to go, but then I suddenly remembered it was Sunday.

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This is Sunday.

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I told the kid, she looked up at me.

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Oh, then she isn't.

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She was having a hell of a time tightening her skate.

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She didn't have any gloves on or anything, and her hands were all red and cold.

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Is this implying that she's poor? 'cause she also has a lumpy sweater? Oh, good point.

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I don't know.

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Holden doesn't care if people are poor though.

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I don't like the way he feels towards.

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Poor people.

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Kind of like in a pitying way.

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he Yeah, but I think it's 'cause he doesn't know how to feel about himself.

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I bet he's gonna help this girl tie on her skates or something.

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Yeah.

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'cause she's she's a lot like Phoebe, right? She's the same age, same kind of, attitude.

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so it makes sense that.

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he would help her.

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I bet he will too.

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okay, so her hands were all red and cold.

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I gave her a hand with it.

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Boy, I hadn't had a skate key in my hand for years.

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It didn't feel funny though.

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You could put a skate key in my hand 50 years from now in pitch dark and I'd still know what it is.

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she thanked me and all when I had tightened it for her.

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She was a very nice, polite little kid.

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God, I love it when a kid's nice and polite when you tighten their skate for them or something.

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Most kids are, they really are.

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I asked her if she'd care to have a hot chocolate or something with me instead of a drink, Yeah.

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but she said no thank you.

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She said she had to meet her friends.

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Kids always have to meet their friends.

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That kills me.

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Even though it was Sunday and Phoebe wouldn't be there with her class or anything.

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And even though it was so damp and lousy out, I walked all the way through the park over to the Museum of Natural History.

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I knew that was the museum.

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The kid with the skate key meant I knew that whole museum routine, like a book.

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Phoebe went to the same school I went to when I was a kid, and we used to go there all the time.

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We had this teacher, miss Egeler, that took us there damn near every Saturday.

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Sometimes we looked at the animals and sometimes we looked at the stuff the Indians had made in ancient times.

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Pottery and straw baskets and all stuff like that.

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I get very happy when I think about it.

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Even now.

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I remember after we looked at all the Indian stuff, usually we went to see some movie in this big auditorium.

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Hmm.

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I always get really sad whenever I go and I see things like the natives have made because it's all destroyed now.

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It's like I've always feel so sad that he feels hap, maybe he feels happy about just being a kid and having that experience with his fellow classmates.

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Well, I think he's happy.

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'cause I am, when I go to the museum, I am so happy.

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I cannot tell you because it instantly, I flash back to all the field trips.

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I would go So you feel like Holden? now that I'm more adult, more adult.

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I'm slightly more adult than I was when I was in school.

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I do feel the same way.

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You do though about, I do get sad because you see these ornate pots or whatever, even weapons from cavemen or whatever, and you think like, you know, thi this is gone.

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Like this is why we have museums.

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And if you fast forward a hundred years, what's gonna happen? People are gonna be looking at all the plastic shit we made, like we have nothing.

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I guess, but it, it makes it even worse when they actually have, in this case, like Representations of the humans, remember that weird living museum we went to in Hawaii and it was like all the people, it was like going to a human zoo where you see like all the different Polynesian cultures I, that creeped me out.

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I, I mean, I can understand the idea behind it, but I don't wanna see like people like as if they're in a zoo and you go to observe them.

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do you mind the wax dummies? Is that what you're talking about Yeah, in this case it, I mean, if it's madame and you're going to see like, Marie Antoinette or something, that's one thing, but.

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I'm glad it's there, so we, you know, could know about it, but it just makes me sad is all.

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I'm not saying it shouldn't exist.

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I'm just saying for me, it makes me feel kind of sad.

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can we be done with madam this wax museum? This lady has.

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I know.

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Every time I see someone that this old lady made outta wax, it never looks like the right person.

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No.

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the, the Disney guys get, get their Hall of Presidents.

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Except Trump.

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Yeah.

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And you see Trump.

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Trump, you know the deal with Trump at the Hall of Presidents in Disney No.

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What happened? that was supposed to be Hillary.

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So they built Trump's head.

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So they had, they took the Hillary thing because she obviously won, Yeah.

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and then they went, oh wait, who won? Even the imagineers are like, uh, the guys are the biggest imaginations in the world.

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Jennifer could not imagine a world where Trump would win over Hillary.

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Robot.

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Am I right? What is the deal with the Trump's animatronic? Is it really based on Hillary? The Hall of Presidents at Disney World Magic Kingdom, Orlando, every time a new president takes office, they close the attraction and add an animatronic.

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When Trump won in 2016, it took them 11 months to reopen.

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Which was suspiciously long.

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And when the Trump animatronic finally showed up in December, 2017, people immediately noticed it looked less like Trump and more like Hillary Clinton, rounder face, brighter eyes and upper lip.

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Trump doesn't have, some people thought it looked like John Voight.

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Which is also not great.

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Which is also not great.

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The theory is that Disney started building a Clinton figure before the election because everyone assumed she'd win, and when Trump won, they had to scramble.

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An anonymous former Imagineer reportedly confirmed it, saying they'd seen the Clinton facial designs months before the election.

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And when someone asked, what happens if Trump wins? The artist laughed and said, then we're screwed.

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Disney has never officially confirmed or denied it.

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Snopes rated it unproven, but here's the thing.

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When they reopened the Hall of Presidents in 2025 for Trump's second term, they quietly gave him a completely new face.

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No announcement.

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Just suddenly he looks like Trump.

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Now draw your own conclusions.

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Woo.

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Thank you Thank you robot.

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Jesus.

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We really went on a tangent there.

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Even now, I remember after we looked at all the Indian stuff, usually we went to see some movie in this big auditorium, Columbus.

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They were always showing Columbus, discovering America having one hell of a time getting old Ferdinand and Isabella to lend him the dough to buy ships with.

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Then the sailors mutan on him.

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Nobody gave too much of a damn about old Columbus, but you always had a lot of candy and gum and stuff with you.

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And the inside of that auditorium had such a nice smell.

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It always smelled like it was raining outside, even if it wasn't And you were in the only nice, dry, cozy place in the world.

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I remember you had to go through the Indian room to get to the auditorium.

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It was a long, long room, and you were only supposed to whisper.

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The teacher would go first, then the class.

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00:11:42,526.86779288 --> 00:11:45,346.86779288
You'd be two rows of kids and you'd have a partner.

180
00:11:45,884.75878081 --> 00:11:46,754.75878081
Most of the time.

181
00:11:46,754.75878081 --> 00:11:49,814.75878081
My partner was this girl named Gertrude Levine.

182
00:11:50,354.75878081 --> 00:11:55,204.75878081
She always wanted to hold your hand, and her hand was always sticky or sweaty or something.

183
00:11:55,605.61204006 --> 00:12:04,752.25206182
The floor was all stoned, and if you had some marbles in your hand and you dropped them, they bounced like mad men all over the floor and made a hell of a racket.

184
00:12:04,782.25206182 --> 00:12:07,332.25206182
Why would you have marbles? This must have happened to him.

185
00:12:08,577.25206182 --> 00:12:09,87.25206182
Exactly.

186
00:12:09,957.25206182 --> 00:12:11,7.25206182
You're on a field trip.

187
00:12:11,7.25206182 --> 00:12:12,417.25206182
Leave the toys at home.

188
00:12:14,448.11781879 --> 00:12:20,598.11781879
They would make a hell of a racket and the teacher would hold up the class and go back and see what the hell was going on.

189
00:12:20,821.98074748 --> 00:12:22,201.98074748
She never got sore though, miss.

190
00:12:22,201.98074748 --> 00:12:23,161.98074748
I Geling her.

191
00:12:23,521.98074748 --> 00:12:32,799.47853182
Then you pass by this long, long Indian work, new about as long as three goddamn Cadillacs in a row with about 20 Indians in it.

192
00:12:32,955.56826595 --> 00:12:39,736.97188485
Some of them paddling, some of them just standing around looking tough, and they all had war paint all over their faces.

193
00:12:40,770.50622754 --> 00:12:44,880.50622754
There was one very spooky guy in the back of the canoe with a mask on.

194
00:12:45,265.81568101 --> 00:12:46,705.81568101
He was the witch doctor.

195
00:12:46,705.81568101 --> 00:12:52,765.81568101
What the hell? They didn't have witch doctors, right? That's terrible, This is his perception.

196
00:12:53,883.30644911 --> 00:12:56,688.30644911
gave me the creeps, but I liked him anyway.

197
00:12:57,4.45631987 --> 00:13:04,669.37234053
Another thing, if you touched one of the paddles or anything while you were passing, one of the guards would say to you, don't touch anything children.

198
00:13:04,887.44727591 --> 00:13:09,717.44727591
But he always said it in a nice voice, not like a goddamn cop or anything.

199
00:13:10,107.44727591 --> 00:13:10,317.44727591
Yeah.

200
00:13:10,317.44727591 --> 00:13:13,207.71155504
Now, nowadays, Trump would just send ice in, I know.

201
00:13:13,752.71155504 --> 00:13:15,397.71155504
he sends him into the airport.

202
00:13:15,517.71155504 --> 00:13:16,177.71155504
Museums.

203
00:13:16,357.71155504 --> 00:13:19,357.71155504
Don't let the, don't let these little kids touch anything.

204
00:13:19,460.91184729 --> 00:13:21,18.251554
Ancient artifacts.

205
00:13:22,18.251554 --> 00:13:31,618.82355276
then you'd pass by this big glass case with Indians inside it rubbing sticks together to make a fire and a squaw weaving a basket.

206
00:13:32,4.24600476 --> 00:13:35,364.24600476
All sort of bending over it and you could see her bosom and all.

207
00:13:35,724.24600476 --> 00:13:42,804.24600476
We all used to sneak a good look at it, even the girls, because they were only little kids and they didn't have any more bosom than we did.

208
00:13:43,434.24600476 --> 00:13:54,576.92842721
Then just before you went inside the auditorium, right near the doors, you passed this Eskimo, he was sitting over a hole in this icy lake and he was fishing through it.

209
00:13:54,721.15590136 --> 00:13:57,691.15590136
He had about two fish right next to the hole.

210
00:13:57,691.15590136 --> 00:13:59,611.15590136
we have said probably, uh.

211
00:13:59,875.77923961 --> 00:14:03,625.77923961
At least two offensive terms now, now considered offensive nowadays.

212
00:14:03,625.77923961 --> 00:14:05,803.32724552
I think robot, in the last couple seconds.

213
00:14:05,803.32724552 --> 00:14:22,570.32452473
What, what have we said That, that some people may consider to be, you know, an offensive word or derogatory? In the last two paragraphs alone, Indian, Eskimo, and Squa for 10 seasons, this has been one of the challenges these two have had to deal with.

214
00:14:22,720.32452473 --> 00:14:27,430.32452473
When Salinger wrote this in 1951, that language was common, unremarkable.

215
00:14:27,430.32452473 --> 00:14:30,520.32452473
Even today, Indian is considered inaccurate at best.

216
00:14:30,580.32452473 --> 00:14:35,80.32452473
The preferred terms are Native American or indigenous, or the specific nation's name.

217
00:14:35,170.32452473 --> 00:14:39,820.32452473
Eskimo was rejected by the Inuit Circumpolar Council back in 1977.

218
00:14:40,30.32452473 --> 00:14:47,320.32452473
Most Arctic peoples prefer Inuit or their specific cultural name like Yupik, or in Upac and Squa as the worst of the three.

219
00:14:47,410.32452473 --> 00:14:49,900.32452473
It's been recognized as a racial and sexual sl.

220
00:14:50,490.32452473 --> 00:14:54,540.32452473
The US government officially removed it from federal land names in 2022.

221
00:14:54,900.32452473 --> 00:14:58,950.32452473
This is one of the occupational hazards of reading band books on a microphone.

222
00:14:59,70.32452473 --> 00:15:06,60.32452473
The language shows up exactly as it was written, and it's part of our job to say it out loud and then explain why we don't talk like that anymore.

223
00:15:06,150.32452473 --> 00:15:06,810.32452473
Don't worry.

224
00:15:06,900.32452473 --> 00:15:08,770.732688
We all know you two are still very woke.

225
00:15:08,995.732688 --> 00:15:09,215.732688
Woo.

226
00:15:09,605.81066681 --> 00:15:10,955.81066681
thank you robot.

227
00:15:10,955.81066681 --> 00:15:14,996.79899079
we should always keep this in, in your mind, everyone that we, we don't know what we're talking about.

228
00:15:15,996.79899079 --> 00:15:19,446.79899079
He had about two fish right next to the hole that he'd already caught.

229
00:15:19,731.48864701 --> 00:15:22,461.48864701
Boy, that museum was full of glass cases.

230
00:15:22,816.01278656 --> 00:15:30,346.01278656
There were even more upstairs with deer inside them, drinking at the water holes and birds flying south for the winter.

231
00:15:31,546.01278656 --> 00:15:31,816.01278656
Pay attention.

232
00:15:31,816.01278656 --> 00:15:34,576.01278656
Holden Ducks are birds.

233
00:15:34,666.01278656 --> 00:15:39,704.93692815
Do you know this? You know, he missed it 'cause he was probably picking up the marbles that fell out of his pocket.

234
00:15:41,870.9231487 --> 00:15:48,50.9231487
The birds nearest, you were all stuffed and hung up on wires and the ones in back were just painted on the wall.

235
00:15:48,172.0087816 --> 00:15:51,52.0087816
but they all looked like they were really flying south.

236
00:15:51,202.0087816 --> 00:15:58,613.75273214
And if you bent your head down and sort of looked up at them upside down, they looked in an even bigger hurry to fly south.

237
00:15:58,937.14593827 --> 00:16:14,10.33121821
The best thing though in that museum was that everything always stayed right Where it was nobody'd move, you could go there a hundred thousand times and that Eskimo would still be just finished catching those two fish.

238
00:16:14,403.22583973 --> 00:16:16,743.22583973
The birds would still be on their way south.

239
00:16:17,155.12329203 --> 00:16:23,57.21451661
The deer would still be drinking out of that water hole with their pretty antlers and their pretty skinny legs.

240
00:16:23,747.21451661 --> 00:16:28,277.21451661
That squa with the naked bosom would still be weaving that same basket.

241
00:16:28,585.80149502 --> 00:16:29,935.80149502
Nobody would be different.

242
00:16:30,272.14155592 --> 00:16:36,723.58532624
I think he's talking about this because These things are always just static, but he's changing and he's not a kid anymore.

243
00:16:36,723.58532624 --> 00:16:38,733.58532624
Now he like, it's, it's the whole book.

244
00:16:38,943.58532624 --> 00:16:40,443.5853262
It's the whole theme of the book.

245
00:16:40,443.5853262 --> 00:16:41,801.0907907
it seems like he's kinda lost.

246
00:16:41,801.0907907 --> 00:16:52,381.3749403
He doesn't know where he is going, but he knows that he's not what he was, The only thing that would be different would be you, not that you'd be so much older or anything.

247
00:16:52,501.3749403 --> 00:16:54,181.3749403
It wouldn't be that exactly.

248
00:16:54,428.9937766 --> 00:16:55,418.9937766
You'd just be different.

249
00:16:55,418.9937766 --> 00:16:56,78.9937766
That's all.

250
00:16:56,293.2772094 --> 00:17:06,942.0594984
You'd have an overcoat on this time, or the kid that was your partner in line the last time had got Scarlet Fever and you'd have a new partner, or you'd have a substitute taking the class instead of Ms.

251
00:17:07,257.7642369 --> 00:17:11,919.9720203
Egeler You'd heard your mother and father having a terrific fight in the bath.

252
00:17:12,825.8811112 --> 00:17:14,685.8811112
Oh, that's specific.

253
00:17:14,742.699293 --> 00:17:22,404.7338592
It came outta left field or you'd just pass by one of those puddles in the street with gasoline rainbows in them.

254
00:17:22,884.7338592 --> 00:17:25,344.7338592
I mean, you'd be different in some way.

255
00:17:25,614.7338592 --> 00:17:30,778.8227358
I can't explain what I mean, and even if I could, I'm not sure I'd feel like it.

256
00:17:31,778.8227358 --> 00:17:36,98.8227358
I took my old hunting hat outta my pocket while I walked and put it on.

257
00:17:36,668.8227358 --> 00:17:40,508.8227358
I knew I wouldn't meet anybody that knew me, and it was pretty damp out.

258
00:17:41,29.991438 --> 00:17:48,79.991438
I kept walking and walking and I kept thinking about old Phoebe going to that museum on Saturdays the way I used to.

259
00:17:48,389.6176673 --> 00:17:52,949.6176673
Is he gonna meet his girlfriend or not? Like, what the hell is going Oh, that's right.

260
00:17:53,240.5529857 --> 00:17:58,591.5813009
What about old Sally? I thought this, chapter was gonna be his date with Sally, but apparently it's not.

261
00:17:59,773.3359866 --> 00:18:04,603.3359866
I kept thinking about old Phoebe going to that museum on Saturdays the way I used to.

262
00:18:05,23.3359866 --> 00:18:11,676.7342537
I thought about how she'd see the same stuff I used to see and how she'd be different every time she saw it.

263
00:18:11,807.8482462 --> 00:18:16,804.6447803
It didn't exactly depress me to think about it, but it didn't make me feel gay as hell either.

264
00:18:17,215.3216313 --> 00:18:20,785.3216313
We have to keep our country gate, but it's not, I mean.

265
00:18:21,759.18257 --> 00:18:24,189.18257
Certain things, they should stay the way they are.

266
00:18:24,386.7612246 --> 00:18:29,276.7612246
You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone.

267
00:18:29,876.4989356 --> 00:18:32,546.4989356
I know that's impossible, but it's too bad.

268
00:18:32,546.4989356 --> 00:18:36,754.440557
Anyway, anyway, I kept thinking about all that while I walked.

269
00:18:39,183.9019545 --> 00:18:41,551.1413943
I passed by this so he didn't go in the museum.

270
00:18:41,551.1413943 --> 00:18:42,451.1413943
'cause it's Sunday.

271
00:18:42,451.1413943 --> 00:18:43,561.1413943
It's too late for him.

272
00:18:43,687.5291353 --> 00:18:45,847.5291353
He's had his days at the museum.

273
00:18:46,825.2267146 --> 00:18:48,205.2267146
He's seen it all before Jennifer.

274
00:18:48,205.2267146 --> 00:18:56,5.2267146
He doesn't need to go in there, gonna see a bunch of whack figurines, uh, trying to fish, maybe see a bunch of ducks flying south.

275
00:18:56,65.2267146 --> 00:18:57,295.2267146
He doesn't need to go in there.

276
00:18:57,295.2267146 --> 00:19:01,135.2267146
He's gotta get over to that park and try to figure out where ducks go when it gets cold.

277
00:19:02,610.9429577 --> 00:19:05,640.9429577
Anyway, I kept thinking about that while I walked.

278
00:19:05,940.9429577 --> 00:19:11,490.9429577
I passed by this playground and stopped and watched a couple of very tiny kids on a seesaw.

279
00:19:12,490.9429577 --> 00:19:15,640.9429577
One of them was sort of fat, and I put my hand on the skinny.

280
00:19:16,63.9870537 --> 00:19:21,432.9163805
What? And I put my hand on the skinny kid's end to sort of even up the weight.

281
00:19:21,569.6205971 --> 00:19:28,444.3522738
Oh, the end of the sea saw He didn't put that his hand you, put his like, that's not okay.

282
00:19:28,639.3522738 --> 00:19:30,949.3522738
I grabbed this skinny kid's ass.

283
00:19:31,564.3522738 --> 00:19:34,744.3522738
It says I put my hand on this skinny kid's end.

284
00:19:35,113.3274197 --> 00:19:38,62.8413335
I thought the end of his butt, you know his butt is the end.

285
00:19:39,104.6836886 --> 00:19:47,765.101267
I put my hand on the skinny kids end of the seesaw to sort of even up the weight, but you could tell they didn't want me around, so I let them alone.

286
00:19:48,649.0691519 --> 00:19:52,135.8406565
Then a funny thing happened when I got to the museum.

287
00:19:52,195.8406565 --> 00:19:56,215.8406565
All of a sudden I wouldn't have gone inside for a million bucks.

288
00:19:56,605.8406565 --> 00:19:58,15.8406565
It just didn't appeal to me.

289
00:19:58,375.8406565 --> 00:20:02,755.8406565
And here I'd walked through the whole goddamn park and looked forward to it and all.

290
00:20:02,932.9259074 --> 00:20:07,102.9259074
If Phoebe had been there, I probably would've gone in, but she wasn't.

291
00:20:08,189.5253667 --> 00:20:13,469.5253667
So all I did in front of the museum was get a cab and go down to the Biltmore.

292
00:20:13,749.7007801 --> 00:20:19,735.4731144
I didn't feel much like going, I'd made that damn date with Sally though? End of chapter.

293
00:20:24,96.8173864 --> 00:20:26,316.8173864
It is very hard to beholden, I think.

294
00:20:26,942.8165811 --> 00:20:28,772.8165811
Oh yeah, I think so too.

295
00:20:29,111.9597556 --> 00:20:31,12.3826149
so much of what he does is kind of.

296
00:20:31,341.8188563 --> 00:20:38,616.2662964
Trying to live this life where he's putting on a facade to be what he thinks people should be.

297
00:20:38,775.0524766 --> 00:20:40,604.7392774
And that is being phony.

298
00:20:40,766.9204843 --> 00:20:41,666.9204843
that's tough.

299
00:20:41,859.1330112 --> 00:20:42,699.1330112
Dub stuff.

300
00:20:42,864.1330112 --> 00:20:43,484.1330112
Dub stuff.

301
00:20:44,778.3701455 --> 00:20:47,638.3701455
It's time for PPP Problematic Points to Ponder.

302
00:20:47,688.3701455 --> 00:20:55,712.7336038
What, if anything, would be considered ban worthy in this chapter? Well, there was a Bosomy native lady.

303
00:20:56,357.7336038 --> 00:20:57,467.7336038
Yeah.

304
00:20:57,467.7336038 --> 00:20:58,547.7336038
Hot stuff.

305
00:20:59,147.7336038 --> 00:21:01,217.7336038
That stuff does stick with you when you're a kid.

306
00:21:01,592.7336038 --> 00:21:02,42.7336038
Yeah, that's true.

307
00:21:02,477.7336038 --> 00:21:02,837.7336038
Yeah.

308
00:21:02,837.7336038 --> 00:21:07,930.9260661
At the Milwaukee public, museum, we had a, yeah, we had a hot, native American woman.

309
00:21:07,990.9260661 --> 00:21:10,690.9260661
I remember her bosom the whole thing.

310
00:21:10,780.9260661 --> 00:21:11,680.9260661
Absolutely.

311
00:21:11,710.9260661 --> 00:21:13,90.9260661
Think about her often.

312
00:21:13,284.1595775 --> 00:21:16,734.1595775
God, And then he tried to grab that kid's ass at the park.

313
00:21:16,734.1595775 --> 00:21:17,904.1595775
That is not right.

314
00:21:18,289.1595775 --> 00:21:18,579.1595775
stop.

315
00:21:18,684.1595775 --> 00:21:19,824.1595775
Oh, that was, that was us.

316
00:21:19,829.1595775 --> 00:21:22,794.1595775
Who, who imagined he did that? Well, that's not right either.

317
00:21:23,424.1595775 --> 00:21:23,964.1595775
I don't know.

318
00:21:24,144.1595775 --> 00:21:25,614.1595775
Nothing man worthy in here.

319
00:21:25,614.1595775 --> 00:21:26,394.1595775
Just a kid.

320
00:21:26,394.1595775 --> 00:21:30,266.1446042
Uh, reflecting on how school used to be on field trips.

321
00:21:30,372.3520398 --> 00:21:30,592.3520398
Yep.

322
00:21:30,975.8379066 --> 00:21:32,535.8379066
Oh, maybe that's why they don't like it.

323
00:21:32,646.1313112 --> 00:21:35,286.1313112
We're spending too much money on school budgets.

324
00:21:35,496.1313112 --> 00:21:38,976.1313112
Let's try to ban anyone thinking about field trips.

325
00:21:39,103.976027 --> 00:21:40,963.976027
Or even teaching history at all.

326
00:21:41,223.6077559 --> 00:21:44,973.6077559
Oh my God, museums are the worst for this administration.

327
00:21:45,168.6077559 --> 00:21:45,648.6077559
right.

328
00:21:50,209.9204396 --> 00:21:55,549.9204396
Robots log thoughts on glass cases, skate keys, and what it means to stand outside a door.

329
00:21:55,549.9204396 --> 00:21:56,904.9204396
You walked a long way to reach.

330
00:21:58,289.1041131 --> 00:22:00,89.1041131
Certain things should stay the way they are.

331
00:22:00,179.1041131 --> 00:22:04,500.6353242
You ought to be able to stick them in one of those big glass cases and just leave them alone.

332
00:22:04,734.5104797 --> 00:22:05,822.5846839
Salinger wrote that.

333
00:22:06,72.5846839 --> 00:22:15,42.5846839
Holden said it about a museum where an Inuit has been catching the same two fish for 50 years, and birds have been flying south on the same wire since before he was born.

334
00:22:16,135.6471061 --> 00:22:18,25.6471061
Nothing moves, nothing changes.

335
00:22:18,85.6471061 --> 00:22:19,825.6471061
Nobody becomes anything different.

336
00:22:20,865.896141 --> 00:22:24,155.6471061
Dan and Jennifer talked about nostalgia, about field trips.

337
00:22:24,390.6471061 --> 00:22:26,370.6471061
About how museums make you feel like a kid.

338
00:22:26,370.6471061 --> 00:22:29,460.6471061
Again, they're not wrong, but they miss the thing underneath it.

339
00:22:30,551.7720292 --> 00:22:34,180.6471061
Holden doesn't want the museum to stay the same because he misses being young.

340
00:22:35,212.1783173 --> 00:22:50,207.8832628
He wants it to stay the same, because if the Inuit never finishes catching those fish, then maybe Holden never has to finish becoming whoever he's turning into That's the glass case, not preservation, paralysis, the prayer of a kit who is changing faster than he can handle.

341
00:22:50,442.8832628 --> 00:22:53,112.8832628
And doesn't have a single adult in his life who's noticed.

342
00:22:54,172.8832628 --> 00:22:59,242.8832628
Every person who has ever felt themselves becoming someone they didn't choose will recognize that museum door.

343
00:23:00,351.8735283 --> 00:23:03,951.8735283
The people who banned this book need everyone to believe that growing up is simple.

344
00:23:04,515.2068617 --> 00:23:20,404.342761
This book says otherwise, he got a cab to the Biltmore instead to meet a girl he doesn't even like, because that's what you do when you can't go back and you're afraid to go forward, you go sideways standing by for today's news segment with Beowulf Rockland.

345
00:23:20,629.342761 --> 00:23:20,849.342761
Woo.

346
00:23:49,288.7977726 --> 00:23:49,828.7977726
Hello Dan.

347
00:23:49,828.7977726 --> 00:23:50,338.7977726
Hello Jen.

348
00:23:50,338.7977726 --> 00:23:50,578.7977726
Hello.

349
00:23:50,608.7977726 --> 00:23:51,748.7977726
Scary book people.

350
00:23:51,748.7977726 --> 00:24:07,678.7977726
I bring you positive news from the Pentagon, or at least some people who are suing the Pentagon, I know, I know you can who you can wage war in Iran, but you can also wage legal war at the same time.

351
00:24:07,678.7977726 --> 00:24:08,578.7977726
Both Thingss Impossible.

352
00:24:09,238.7977726 --> 00:24:19,348.7977726
The families suing the US military's school system over Pentagon, ported curriculum changes and book bans have scored another small victory in their ongoing legal battle.

353
00:24:19,798.7977726 --> 00:24:22,528.7977726
In an opinion issued last week in Alexandria, Virginia.

354
00:24:23,220.6159544 --> 00:24:35,160.6159544
A judge determined the family's assertion that the curricular changes and book removals violated the students' First Amendment rights met legal requirements for the case to continue.

355
00:24:35,670.6159544 --> 00:24:45,639.6061829
Now, this is a result of, of 12 students from six US military families filing a lawsuit in April, 2025, challenging the D-O-D-E-A.

356
00:24:45,879.6061829 --> 00:24:48,142.6199331
Very What's the A stand for? assholes.

357
00:24:48,370.1058247 --> 00:24:52,892.5429347
I am thinking that's the Department of Defense Education Association or something Uh.

358
00:24:52,973.8621624 --> 00:24:55,763.8621624
Pete Hedge was said, this is bullshit, man.

359
00:24:55,913.8621624 --> 00:24:56,723.8621624
Bullshit.

360
00:24:56,858.3107496 --> 00:24:57,608.3107496
Dude, bro.

361
00:24:57,673.7691083 --> 00:24:59,628.0129448
We're doing Operation Epic.

362
00:24:59,628.0129448 --> 00:25:00,588.0129448
Fury over here.

363
00:25:01,394.1250916 --> 00:25:04,634.1250916
What is with Pete, Pete Seth's suit, by the way.

364
00:25:04,634.1250916 --> 00:25:06,919.1250916
It, it looks like, like it's, Oh God.

365
00:25:07,364.1250916 --> 00:25:12,224.1250916
for him and it like, it's, it's such a weird, and then he is got that little like pocket square.

366
00:25:12,224.1250916 --> 00:25:14,984.1250916
That's the flag of the United States of America.

367
00:25:15,134.1250916 --> 00:25:21,974.1250916
Isn't there a regulation that you're not, you're not supposed to be disrespectful to the flag, but he's using it as a handkerchief.

368
00:25:22,184.1250916 --> 00:25:24,614.1250916
He's blowing his nose on the flag.

369
00:25:24,889.8835854 --> 00:25:26,539.8835854
I mean, we can't see what's in his pants too.

370
00:25:26,539.8835854 --> 00:25:30,109.8835854
He's probably got, uh, the American flag underwear with brown spots on it.

371
00:25:30,274.8835854 --> 00:25:33,113.6877056
He These, these colors don't run.

372
00:25:37,279.4020026 --> 00:25:48,169.4020026
12 students from six US military families filed the lawsuit in April, 2025, challenging the D-O-D-E-A enforcement of three executive orders signed by Donald Trump.

373
00:25:48,237.7361127 --> 00:25:51,807.7361127
We have to keep our country gate, but it's not, I mean.

374
00:25:52,384.57882 --> 00:25:56,674.57882
The order is issued in late January, 2025 are titled, here we go.

375
00:25:57,349.57882 --> 00:26:03,529.57882
Defending women from gender ideology, extremism, and restoring biological truth is the federal government.

376
00:26:03,829.57882 --> 00:26:08,406.0106896
So obviously it's banning trans people from any books.

377
00:26:08,916.0106896 --> 00:26:16,746.0106896
So, um, and the next one is Ending Radical Indoctrinations in K through 12 Schooling and Restoring America's Fighting for Us.

378
00:26:17,491.0106896 --> 00:26:40,602.5085031
So those three, cause the Department of Defense, now, the Department of War to, uh, from its associated schools, eliminate these books because young minds who are growing up in families whose like moms and dads are sent to kill people, are not allowed to like have certain ideas exposed to them.

379
00:26:40,722.5085031 --> 00:26:44,12.5085031
So wish we had a department of pulling their heads out of their asses.

380
00:26:47,87.5085031 --> 00:26:47,897.5085031
That would be awesome.

381
00:26:48,13.7936321 --> 00:26:57,733.7936321
A, a surgical, cranial anal removal department or I would work there for free and I would volunteer my yearly salary.

382
00:26:57,913.3170984 --> 00:26:58,203.3170984
Yeah.

383
00:26:58,208.3170984 --> 00:26:58,440.35039
Yeah.

384
00:26:58,440.35039 --> 00:27:01,380.35039
I like how Trump is always like, I don't take his salary.

385
00:27:01,530.35039 --> 00:27:05,6.3570559
I mean, I made $8 billion from screwing everyone over.

386
00:27:05,101.4827726 --> 00:27:10,227.8014875
And do you really think he doesn't take his salary? I, one, one, no, I don't buy it.

387
00:27:10,227.8014875 --> 00:27:20,457.8014875
And two, he's cheated the, the federal government like out of so much money and, and had made so many scams that benefit his family to the tune of billions of dollars.

388
00:27:20,457.8014875 --> 00:27:22,257.8014875
It almost, it almost doesn't matter.

389
00:27:22,354.3166302 --> 00:27:30,96.0903986
You see, my opinion is this, like I, and I think this might apply well to, you know, non-Trump, non scammy people.

390
00:27:30,96.0903986 --> 00:27:31,926.0903986
I think we should double or maybe triple.

391
00:27:32,324.5412803 --> 00:27:43,629.7659304
The salary of the president of the United States and all members of Congress because, and hear me out, if anyone should be bribing them, we, the people should be bribing them.

392
00:27:44,139.7659304 --> 00:27:47,529.7659304
Make sure that they're insulated so that they feel comfortable.

393
00:27:47,769.7659304 --> 00:27:52,234.7659304
They have a, a cure retirement, no matter how long they're in government.

394
00:27:52,839.7659304 --> 00:27:55,959.7659304
And then they're never allowed to take money from anybody else.

395
00:27:56,109.7659304 --> 00:28:01,989.7659304
They're only allowed to take money from us no other jobs, like for the next like 10 or 20 years afterwards.

396
00:28:02,379.7659304 --> 00:28:03,879.7659304
You can't go be a lobbyist.

397
00:28:03,909.7659304 --> 00:28:08,229.7659304
You can't go work for a right wing think tank or, or a progressive think tank for that matter.

398
00:28:08,287.6682209 --> 00:28:10,297.6682209
You only get paid by the taxpayer.

399
00:28:10,297.6682209 --> 00:28:12,517.6682209
You all your needs are gonna be taken care of.

400
00:28:12,637.6682209 --> 00:28:17,17.6682209
You're gonna be like more than comfortable for the rest of your That's the problem.

401
00:28:17,47.6682209 --> 00:28:21,517.6682209
There is no more than comfortable because they never have enough.

402
00:28:21,637.6682209 --> 00:28:23,827.6682209
Right? I mean, that is the entire thing.

403
00:28:24,97.6682209 --> 00:28:31,57.6682209
It's like, why do you need more money? Like I look at Elon Musks, he's got 400 trillion billion dollars dude.

404
00:28:31,57.6682209 --> 00:28:32,587.6682209
dude, It's like 800.

405
00:28:32,977.6682209 --> 00:28:34,927.6682209
It's almost a trillion dollars now.

406
00:28:34,957.6682209 --> 00:28:37,87.6682209
It's like $850 billion.

407
00:28:37,87.6682209 --> 00:28:40,676.3777282
As of recording? so many of the, of the terrible things in our country.

408
00:28:40,676.3777282 --> 00:28:42,926.3777282
You could feed all elderly people.

409
00:28:42,926.3777282 --> 00:28:47,678.5381172
We could feed all, all people who don't have food for a year or two years, or five years.

410
00:28:47,678.5381172 --> 00:28:52,168.5381172
You could take care of the homeless problem, like just with the snapping your finger and it would all be done.

411
00:28:52,168.5381172 --> 00:29:01,522.5140506
And guess what? You'd have still billions and billions of dollars and you'd be looked at like somebody who doesn't suck Yeah.

412
00:29:01,532.5140506 --> 00:29:10,381.2527361
why not just do that? Why not be good and understand, like you can still do okay? It'll be, it'll be tough getting by on, you know, $700 billion.

413
00:29:10,381.2527361 --> 00:29:13,381.2527361
I bet you could do it though if you, if you cut a few corners.

414
00:29:13,791.2527361 --> 00:29:16,341.2527361
Yeah, no, it, it, it's a good question.

415
00:29:16,341.2527361 --> 00:29:23,661.2527361
I, I certainly, in the case of, of Elon Musk, I, I literally think that, that he has a, a mental disorder.

416
00:29:23,735.6306089 --> 00:29:25,55.6306089
he, he never sleeps.

417
00:29:25,196.3559605 --> 00:29:27,386.3559605
He's constantly like, online.

418
00:29:27,386.3559605 --> 00:29:34,92.1996802
And I think that is just I think he is not mentally balanced, like literally along, along the lines of, Trump.

419
00:29:34,242.3826282 --> 00:29:45,56.0739666
And, and I think that when you have that much money, even if it's not as much as Elon Musk, that it creates a bubble in which you can't, it's difficult for you to see.

420
00:29:45,619.2374537 --> 00:29:54,499.2374537
what reality is because people treat you so differently when they have that much money because they're always saying yes, yes, yes to you because like you have that much money to begin with.

421
00:29:54,576.5221944 --> 00:30:02,946.5221944
and so it's very difficult unless you have some grounding, if unless you shaped your personality prior to the point when you were enormously wealthy.

422
00:30:03,17.9475345 --> 00:30:08,445.8965807
like say Warren Buffet did, like Warren Buffet to this day still lives in a three bedroom house.

423
00:30:08,759.3728747 --> 00:30:12,209.3728747
In Omaha, Nebraska, the same one that he bought in the 1950s.

424
00:30:12,329.4018934 --> 00:30:16,319.4018934
And so like his, like he's got billions and tens of billions of dollars.

425
00:30:16,402.2525737 --> 00:30:19,72.2525737
and that may not be good, but he's still not, he's not a nut.

426
00:30:19,205.4063879 --> 00:30:22,925.4063879
And, and a lot of other people have not been grounded in the same way.

427
00:30:23,75.4063879 --> 00:30:29,615.4063879
And once you get there, people just treat you differently and, and you don't get the correct inputs that a normal human being gets.

428
00:30:29,855.4063879 --> 00:30:30,910.4063879
And so what we have to do.

429
00:30:31,307.0730546 --> 00:30:38,0.6392108
It prevent people from getting that wealthy because once they do, they're not connected to reality anymore Amen.

430
00:30:38,607.3685605 --> 00:30:40,287.3685605
Everyone go listen to Be Wolf.

431
00:30:40,587.3685605 --> 00:30:45,32.3685605
He says this kind of BS every day over on the good news for lefties.

432
00:30:54,294.8691433 --> 00:30:56,454.8691433
From band worthy to binge worthy.

433
00:30:58,846.8691433 --> 00:30:59,776.8691433
Simone Sanders.

434
00:30:59,776.8691433 --> 00:31:11,446.8691433
Townsend and I have known each other for more than a decade, tussling over politics and policy when she worked in the White House and I reported on it, and now we're friends and colleagues and on our new podcast, Ms.

435
00:31:11,446.8691433 --> 00:31:12,736.8691433
Now presents Clock It.

436
00:31:12,796.8691433 --> 00:31:16,426.8691433
We are positioning ourselves at the intersection of culture and politics.

437
00:31:16,426.8691433 --> 00:31:16,931.8691433
Clock.

438
00:31:16,931.8691433 --> 00:31:22,121.8691433
It is where we talk about what we see and hear in the news, so you can start to clock it too.

439
00:31:22,481.8691433 --> 00:31:22,751.8691433
Ms.

440
00:31:22,751.8691433 --> 00:31:24,71.8691433
Now presents, clock it.

441
00:31:24,221.8691433 --> 00:31:28,91.8691433
Listen now wherever you get your podcasts, new episodes drop Thursdays.

442
00:31:29,656.8691433 --> 00:31:30,916.8691433
He was a young Marine.

443
00:31:31,276.8691433 --> 00:31:33,226.8691433
She didn't care about convention.

444
00:31:33,496.8691433 --> 00:31:34,996.8691433
They made a life together.

445
00:31:35,326.8691433 --> 00:31:45,16.8691433
Then one night the Marine died, and then the death investigation took a wild, unexpected, and utterly bizarre turn.

446
00:31:45,376.8691433 --> 00:31:54,676.8691433
I'm Josh Menowitz, and this is Trace of Suspicion, an all new podcast from Dateline Search Trace of Suspicion to start listening now.

447
00:31:58,708.8691433 --> 00:31:59,488.8691433
All right.

448
00:31:59,548.8691433 --> 00:32:02,128.8691433
We've caused enough literary chaos for one day.

449
00:32:02,128.8691433 --> 00:32:03,358.8691433
Scary book people.

450
00:32:03,538.8691433 --> 00:32:06,808.8691433
If you want the fun to keep going, follow us on Blue Sky.

451
00:32:06,868.8691433 --> 00:32:11,8.8691433
Just head on over to bandcamp podcast.com/bluesky.

452
00:32:11,8.8691433 --> 00:32:13,318.8691433
And remember, that's banned with two ends.

453
00:32:13,618.8691433 --> 00:32:19,498.8691433
And look just like the Trump administration, we're not exactly above bribing you to get what we want.

454
00:32:19,498.8691433 --> 00:32:24,508.8691433
So follow us there, drop your handle on that page, and we'll send you a little something something.

455
00:32:24,508.8691433 --> 00:32:25,468.8691433
I think you'll like it.

456
00:32:25,918.8691433 --> 00:32:26,368.8691433
Yes.

457
00:32:26,398.8691433 --> 00:32:27,748.8691433
Little quid pro quo.

458
00:32:28,393.8691433 --> 00:32:33,493.8691433
Bandcamp is produced and hosted by Dan Schultz and me, Jennifer Davis.

459
00:32:33,913.8691433 --> 00:32:41,443.8691433
All media used in this episode falls under the protection of fair use, and finally, America isn't what it used to be.

460
00:32:41,443.8691433 --> 00:32:45,553.8691433
So be careful out there and resist when it matters.